Motorcycle.com

BBD_Racing · 05-19-2003, 07:21 AM

Uh, yeah, like, what do we need to make our top production based, high tech racing more competitive? Hmmm...... I know, we could immitate NASCAR and go with restrictor plate! Yeah! The whole world knows how wnderful and fascinating NASCAR is, so we could be just like them!

The only really sad thing is how a great rider like Neil Hodgson is going to win a cheapened championship. He never really got a square deal. First on an old bike, now with no competition.

Anyway, the answer is obvious: remove all engine restrictions except the requirement to have stock cases, heads (porting ans such allowed) and maybe crank. Let's see what the mfg's come up with. Maybe a 1200cc twin vs a 1000cc four vs a 600cc turbo four. The only way for WSB to survive the GP threat is to allow mfg innovation and remove these semi-random rules.

KPaulCook · 05-19-2003, 07:42 AM

Excellent Post. I agree poor Neil. He is a great rider. I like the AMA rules change for 2004. Have CC based classes 600 SS and 1000 SB, with an Open class (Extreme where anything goes).

sarnali · 05-19-2003, 07:46 AM

That was a fantastic race, I think Hodgson would have won anyway on skill alone, but I agree, restricter plates are bulls**t. It should be 1000cc production based across the board. Those shots of Lavila smoking the tire powering out of the turns proves how strong the Bandit based GSXR is!!

TrackDaddy · 05-19-2003, 08:27 AM

The polotics of this process have been interesting to watch. The whole series has been flipped on its' head over the last few years to accomodate Ducati. The FIM finally "bows" to the pressure from the market and the Japanese manufacturers and allows 1000cc fours, but requires restrictor plates.

I don't believe the FIM will remove the restrictor plate rule any time soon. In all fariness to Ducati, if that happened, Suzuki would OWN every race. And as soon as honda shows up w/ a 1000cc four RR, Ducati would become the "back marker manufacturer". Considering the rift that seems to exist between the FIM and the Japanese manufacturers, I don't see this getting resolved any time soon.

KPaulCook · 05-19-2003, 08:40 AM

If WSB elimated restrictor plates "Suzuki would own every race" , as TrackDaddy said, in the near term.[*]Longer term, Ducati would be forced to produce a V-4 production bike based on its MotoGP bike to compete. When that happens the V-Twin is officically dead in road racing .[*]Honda would jump in with its CBR1000RR to be out next year.[*]Kawasaki follows with the new ZX10R.[*] Yamaha fields the R1. Aprilia produces a Triple based on its MotoGP bike. Triumph fields a Dayatona 1000 Triple.

On the other hand the most likely scenario as announced by WSB is restrictor plates are added to everything. Then things get just like NASCAR. Next fairings will regulated like NASCAR regulates CAR Aero profiles. sick sick sick

rsheidler · 05-19-2003, 09:05 AM

I agree with the consensus view that restrictors are bull$hit. However, I am not so sure that removing them would result in Ducati becoming uncompetitive -- if you look at British Superbike, Ducati still dominate, although Suzuki also is up there. And this is with last year model Ducatis (like in AMA).

Unfortunately, it looks as though WSB will not drop restrictors, but instead will make everyone else run them too. Shades of NASCAR, where you try to artificially create equal competition.

My own view is that Superbike should now be open to displacement etc, but with a requirement that they remain very close to factory production and that they are based on true production (relatively high production numbers to avoid homologation specials) -- basically an open supersport class with slicks. Plus, that way, we could actually buy the best stuff the manufacturers come up with for racing.

Cheers

Bob

KPaulCook · 05-19-2003, 09:15 AM

I orginally thought bike should be limited to 1000cc, but I am starting to come around to your way of thinking. I like the restriction that they have to be production bikes which would distiquish WSB from MotoGP (Formula One of Motorcycle racing). Restrictor plates just sound lame to me. If you want equality put everyone on a GSXR-750 and call it MotoIROC

rsheidler · 05-19-2003, 11:58 AM

I think the motorcycle IROC idea is a good one -- not as a replacement for superbike, but, like IROC, as an occassional mini-series. Spec racing classes are often some of the best racing -- unfortunately the spec series in motorcycle racing are generally either for relatively unknown riders looking to make a name for themselves (eg Aprilia 250 Cup, Suzuki Cup), or for semi-retired or second-string racers (eg BMW Boxer Cup).

It is amazing to see how close the racing is when the bikes are equal, and how aggressive the riders are when they know that they can't blame their poor finish on not having the latest factory parts, or unfair rules or whatever.

What would be cool would be to organize a post-season mini-series (so injuries would't risk the rider's championship chances) for top WSB and MotoGP riders (maybe a couple of top riders from the major national SB series -- eg AMA, BSB, All Japan) on stock bikes all prepared by the factory -- maybe a different brand for each event (eg have one round on Duc 999, one on GSX1000 etc)

It would take mega$$$ to entice the riders to risk their reputations and bodies, but it woud be really entertaining.

KPaulCook · 05-19-2003, 12:03 PM

Different Brands for each race is good idea. That would make it really interesting.

"It would take mega$$$ to entice the riders to risk their reputations and bodies, but it woud be really entertaining." Too bad Paul Allen is too busy with the Portland JailBlazers and Seattle Seachickens. Maybe H-D should give Paul Allen a H-D as a present.

rsheidler · 05-19-2003, 12:06 PM

I can just see it -- spec chassis with virtually interchangable fairings (with only detail styling details to vaguely resemble the production bikes, with 30+ year old engines with a different number of cylinders from the production bike -- maybe require pushrods and 2 valves per cylinder.

Then we can put in pitstops and lots of yellow flags and pace cars so pit stop strategy is more important than speed! Hell, it has worked so well for Formula 1!

05-19-2003, 07:21 AM	#1
BBD_Racing Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 337	Re: Speed TV Guest WSB Commentator Colin Edwards says Ducatis have unfair advantage Uh, yeah, like, what do we need to make our top production based, high tech racing more competitive? Hmmm...... I know, we could immitate NASCAR and go with restrictor plate! Yeah! The whole world knows how wnderful and fascinating NASCAR is, so we could be just like them! The only really sad thing is how a great rider like Neil Hodgson is going to win a cheapened championship. He never really got a square deal. First on an old bike, now with no competition. Anyway, the answer is obvious: remove all engine restrictions except the requirement to have stock cases, heads (porting ans such allowed) and maybe crank. Let's see what the mfg's come up with. Maybe a 1200cc twin vs a 1000cc four vs a 600cc turbo four. The only way for WSB to survive the GP threat is to allow mfg innovation and remove these semi-random rules.

05-19-2003, 07:42 AM	#2
KPaulCook Banned Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,756	Re: Speed TV Guest WSB Commentator Colin Edwards says Ducatis have unfair advantage Excellent Post. I agree poor Neil. He is a great rider. I like the AMA rules change for 2004. Have CC based classes 600 SS and 1000 SB, with an Open class (Extreme where anything goes).

05-19-2003, 07:46 AM	#3
sarnali Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,416	Re: Speed TV Guest WSB Commentator Colin Edwards says Ducatis have unfair advantage That was a fantastic race, I think Hodgson would have won anyway on skill alone, but I agree, restricter plates are bulls**t. It should be 1000cc production based across the board. Those shots of Lavila smoking the tire powering out of the turns proves how strong the Bandit based GSXR is!!

05-19-2003, 08:27 AM	#4
TrackDaddy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 21	Re: Speed TV Guest WSB Commentator Colin Edwards says Ducatis have unfair advantage The polotics of this process have been interesting to watch. The whole series has been flipped on its' head over the last few years to accomodate Ducati. The FIM finally "bows" to the pressure from the market and the Japanese manufacturers and allows 1000cc fours, but requires restrictor plates. I don't believe the FIM will remove the restrictor plate rule any time soon. In all fariness to Ducati, if that happened, Suzuki would OWN every race. And as soon as honda shows up w/ a 1000cc four RR, Ducati would become the "back marker manufacturer". Considering the rift that seems to exist between the FIM and the Japanese manufacturers, I don't see this getting resolved any time soon. __________________ Some people play hard to get, I play hard to like - Ford Fairlane

05-19-2003, 08:40 AM	#5
KPaulCook Banned Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,756	More Fearless predictions If WSB elimated restrictor plates "Suzuki would own every race" , as TrackDaddy said, in the near term.[]Longer term, Ducati would be forced to produce a V-4 production bike based on its MotoGP bike to compete. When that happens the V-Twin is officically dead in road racing* .[]Honda would jump in with its CBR1000RR to be out next year.[]Kawasaki follows with the new ZX10R.[] Yamaha fields the R1. Aprilia produces a Triple based on its MotoGP bike. Triumph fields a Dayatona 1000 Triple. On the other hand the most likely scenario as announced by WSB is restrictor plates are added to everything. Then things get just like NASCAR. Next fairings will regulated like NASCAR regulates CAR Aero profiles. sick sick sick*

Sponsored Links	Remove Advertisements
Motorcycle Forum Advertisement

05-19-2003, 09:05 AM	#6
rsheidler Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,459	Re: Speed TV Guest WSB Commentator Colin Edwards says Ducatis have unfair advantage I agree with the consensus view that restrictors are bull$hit. However, I am not so sure that removing them would result in Ducati becoming uncompetitive -- if you look at British Superbike, Ducati still dominate, although Suzuki also is up there. And this is with last year model Ducatis (like in AMA). Unfortunately, it looks as though WSB will not drop restrictors, but instead will make everyone else run them too. Shades of NASCAR, where you try to artificially create equal competition. My own view is that Superbike should now be open to displacement etc, but with a requirement that they remain very close to factory production and that they are based on true production (relatively high production numbers to avoid homologation specials) -- basically an open supersport class with slicks. Plus, that way, we could actually buy the best stuff the manufacturers come up with for racing. Cheers Bob

05-19-2003, 09:15 AM	#7
KPaulCook Banned Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,756	Maybe Motorcycling needs an IROC. I orginally thought bike should be limited to 1000cc, but I am starting to come around to your way of thinking. I like the restriction that they have to be production bikes which would distiquish WSB from MotoGP (Formula One of Motorcycle racing). Restrictor plates just sound lame to me. If you want equality put everyone on a GSXR-750 and call it MotoIROC

05-19-2003, 11:58 AM	#8
rsheidler Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,459	Re: Maybe Motorcycling needs an IROC. I think the motorcycle IROC idea is a good one -- not as a replacement for superbike, but, like IROC, as an occassional mini-series. Spec racing classes are often some of the best racing -- unfortunately the spec series in motorcycle racing are generally either for relatively unknown riders looking to make a name for themselves (eg Aprilia 250 Cup, Suzuki Cup), or for semi-retired or second-string racers (eg BMW Boxer Cup). It is amazing to see how close the racing is when the bikes are equal, and how aggressive the riders are when they know that they can't blame their poor finish on not having the latest factory parts, or unfair rules or whatever. What would be cool would be to organize a post-season mini-series (so injuries would't risk the rider's championship chances) for top WSB and MotoGP riders (maybe a couple of top riders from the major national SB series -- eg AMA, BSB, All Japan) on stock bikes all prepared by the factory -- maybe a different brand for each event (eg have one round on Duc 999, one on GSX1000 etc) It would take mega$$$ to entice the riders to risk their reputations and bodies, but it woud be really entertaining.

05-19-2003, 12:03 PM	#9
KPaulCook Banned Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,756	Re: Maybe Motorcycling needs an IROC. Different Brands for each race is good idea. That would make it really interesting. "It would take mega$$$ to entice the riders to risk their reputations and bodies, but it woud be really entertaining." Too bad Paul Allen is too busy with the Portland JailBlazers and Seattle Seachickens. Maybe H-D should give Paul Allen a H-D as a present.

05-19-2003, 12:06 PM	#10
rsheidler Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,459	NASCAR for Bikes I can just see it -- spec chassis with virtually interchangable fairings (with only detail styling details to vaguely resemble the production bikes, with 30+ year old engines with a different number of cylinders from the production bike -- maybe require pushrods and 2 valves per cylinder. Then we can put in pitstops and lots of yellow flags and pace cars so pit stop strategy is more important than speed! Hell, it has worked so well for Formula 1!