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Old 09-06-2010, 05:12 PM   #11
MOKE1K
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Originally Posted by mscuddy View Post

And I'm sure his last thoughts were "Damn, I hope the bike is OK."

That's what mine always were before the lights went out.

Isnt that so true!
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Old 09-06-2010, 05:35 PM   #12
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During this past week Peter Lenz has been on my mind in a big way because yes 13yrs old is too young to die. You never really know what the motives that drove him were. Hopefully it was because "he" loved to ride and for no other reason.

Tomizawa I knew little about until he won the first race this year and seemed to have consistant finishes. 19 is a bit older but doesnt excuse the emotions of losing these two young rising stars at such an early start in their careers. RIP Peter Lenz and Shoya Tomizawa and my condolences to both families and friends.

An not so interesting fact pointed out by Superbikeplanet is Sept 5th is the day Wayne Raineys accident happened at Misano.
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:51 AM   #13
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Schwantz said whe wasn't getting out of bed on that day next year. It's very sad. Now the gummit is saying they want to bring criminal charges. That would be terrible for the sport. Mistakes were numerous, but to take out criminal charges against people that were volunteers will harm the sport of racing as a whole. Marshalls should be more than volunteers. If you want to marshall an event you should have to go through a 2 day preparedness program before the races to limit mistakes. I said on Crash that every promotor will now have to now weigh financial loss if they bring this case for their future events- any events. It will be very bad to criminally charge people for mistakes that happened in my opinion. These people that were there first hand will never forget this event. Training is the key.
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:31 AM   #14
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Have you seen this Ace? Rediculous! Its strange I guess to the people on the outside looking in, but to us racers its part of the game. You must accept what can happen and try to ride without worry. Racing is dangerous.

Fox News sensationalizes Peter Lenz death | Hell for Leather
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:34 AM   #15
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It's worth noting how rare deaths have become in GP racing, thanks to improved circuits that ensure adequate runoff, so there's a lot of sliding and tumbling but no sudden deceleration. RIP, Peter and Shoya.
I disagree that they have become rare, I think Iv seen more people die since Daijiro Kato, in Motogp then when the bikes where supposedly less tame with less electronics and four stroke motors.
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:38 AM   #16
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I saw the race and the replays. As terrible as the mistakes were to throw marshalls in jail for manslaughter chargers is insane. They took the advise of medical personel on scene. A series of tragic blunders occured, but don't charge them with wrong-doing. I truly believes this revolves around training. If you don't teach for the moment then mistakes are inevitable. It's not like those men were trying to kill him. They just moved too fast to assess the trauma. The poor bast@rd that tripped must have the weight of the world on him right now.
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:22 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKE1K View Post
I disagree that they have become rare, I think Iv seen more people die since Daijiro Kato, in Motogp then when the bikes where supposedly less tame with less electronics and four stroke motors.
Name one GP rider who has died since Kato and before Tomizawa.
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:57 AM   #18
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Peter Lenz? Course maybe he's not considered a Gp rider since it was a USGPR race.(I consider Peter to have raced in the GP) But still the thing I find more odd is, supposedly the 500's with no electronics were alot more violent yet there were less deaths. Thats three since 2003 and right around the time they switched to fourstrokes.

Now name some riders from the 90's that raced Grandprix during the two stroke era that died. I could be wrong but I think its alot less, giving the time span. Oh wait found this list

1949 Ben Drinkwater (GBR) GP Isle of Man
1950 David Whitworth (GBR) GP Spa Francorchamps
1951 Dario Ambrosini (ITA) GP Albi
1951 Gianni Leoni (ITA) Ulster GP
1951 Sante Geminiani (ITA) Ulster GP
1952 Dave Bennett (GBR) GP Bern
1953 Leslie Graham (GBR) GP Isle of Man
1954 Rupert Hollaus (AUT) GP Monza Practice
1954 Dennis Lashmar (GBR) GP Solitude
1956 Derek Ennett (GBR) Ulster GP
1957 Charlie Salt (GBR) GP Isle of Man
1957 Roberto Colombo (ITA) GP Spa Francorchamps
1960 Bob Brown (AUS) GP Solitude
1960 Peter Febrache (GBR) GP Assen
1961 Ron Miles (AUS) GP Dundrod
1963 Marcellin Herranz (FRA) GP Charade
1964 Vernon Cottle (GBR) GP Imatra
1965 Ramón Torras (SPA) GP Barcelona
1969 Bill Ivy (GBR) GP Sachsenring[12]
1970 Robin Fitton (GBR) GP Nürburgring
1971 Christian Ravel (FRA) GP Spa Francorchamps
1971 Angelo Bergamonti (ITA) GP Riccione
1971 Günter Bartusch (GDR) GP Sachsenring
1973 Renzo Pasolini (ITA) GP Monza
1973 Jarno Saarinen (FIN) GP Monza
1974 Billie Nelson (GBR) GP Opatija
1975 Rolf Thiele (BRD) GP Assen
1976 Otello Buscherini (ITA) GP Mugello
1976 Paolo Tordi (ITA) GP Mugello
1977 Ulrich Graf (SUI) GP Opatija
1977 Giovanni Zigiotto (ITA) GP Opatija
1977 Hans Stadelmann (SUI) GP Salzburgring
1977 Piers Forester (GBR) Brands Hatch Powerbike International
1980 Patrick Pons (FRA) GP Silverstone
1981 Michel Rougerie (FRA) GP Yugoslavia
1981 Sauro Pazzaglia (ITA) GP Imola
1981 Alain Beraud (FRA) GP Brno
1983 Michel Frutschi (SUI) GP Le Mans
1983 Rolf Rüttimann (SUI) GP Rijeka
1983 Norman Brown (NIR) GP Silverstone
1983 Peter Huber (SUI) GP Silverstone
1984 Kevin Wrettom (ENG) GP Spa-Francorchamps
1989 Iván Palazzese (VEN) GP Hockenheim
1993 Noboyuki Wakai (JPN) GP Jeréz
2003 Daijiro Kato (JPN) GP Suzuka
2010 Shoya Tomizawa (JPN) GP Misano,5 September 2010,Japanese Moto2 Rider
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Old 09-07-2010, 11:06 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKE1K View Post
Peter Lenz? Course maybe he's not considered a Gp rider since it was a USGPR race.(I consider Peter to have raced in the GP) But still the thing I find more odd is, supposedly the 500's with no electronics were alot more violent yet there were less deaths. Thats three since 2003 and right around the time they switched to fourstrokes.

Now name some riders from the 90's that raced Grandprix during the two stroke era that died. I could be wrong but I think its alot less, giving the time span. Oh wait found this list

1949 Ben Drinkwater (GBR) GP Isle of Man
1950 David Whitworth (GBR) GP Spa Francorchamps
1951 Dario Ambrosini (ITA) GP Albi
1951 Gianni Leoni (ITA) Ulster GP
1951 Sante Geminiani (ITA) Ulster GP
1952 Dave Bennett (GBR) GP Bern
1953 Leslie Graham (GBR) GP Isle of Man
1954 Rupert Hollaus (AUT) GP Monza Practice
1954 Dennis Lashmar (GBR) GP Solitude
1956 Derek Ennett (GBR) Ulster GP
1957 Charlie Salt (GBR) GP Isle of Man
1957 Roberto Colombo (ITA) GP Spa Francorchamps
1960 Bob Brown (AUS) GP Solitude
1960 Peter Febrache (GBR) GP Assen
1961 Ron Miles (AUS) GP Dundrod
1963 Marcellin Herranz (FRA) GP Charade
1964 Vernon Cottle (GBR) GP Imatra
1965 Ramón Torras (SPA) GP Barcelona
1969 Bill Ivy (GBR) GP Sachsenring[12]
1970 Robin Fitton (GBR) GP Nürburgring
1971 Christian Ravel (FRA) GP Spa Francorchamps
1971 Angelo Bergamonti (ITA) GP Riccione
1971 Günter Bartusch (GDR) GP Sachsenring
1973 Renzo Pasolini (ITA) GP Monza
1973 Jarno Saarinen (FIN) GP Monza
1974 Billie Nelson (GBR) GP Opatija
1975 Rolf Thiele (BRD) GP Assen
1976 Otello Buscherini (ITA) GP Mugello
1976 Paolo Tordi (ITA) GP Mugello
1977 Ulrich Graf (SUI) GP Opatija
1977 Giovanni Zigiotto (ITA) GP Opatija
1977 Hans Stadelmann (SUI) GP Salzburgring
1977 Piers Forester (GBR) Brands Hatch Powerbike International
1980 Patrick Pons (FRA) GP Silverstone
1981 Michel Rougerie (FRA) GP Yugoslavia
1981 Sauro Pazzaglia (ITA) GP Imola
1981 Alain Beraud (FRA) GP Brno
1983 Michel Frutschi (SUI) GP Le Mans
1983 Rolf Rüttimann (SUI) GP Rijeka
1983 Norman Brown (NIR) GP Silverstone
1983 Peter Huber (SUI) GP Silverstone
1984 Kevin Wrettom (ENG) GP Spa-Francorchamps
1989 Iván Palazzese (VEN) GP Hockenheim
1993 Noboyuki Wakai (JPN) GP Jeréz
2003 Daijiro Kato (JPN) GP Suzuka
2010 Shoya Tomizawa (JPN) GP Misano,5 September 2010,Japanese Moto2 Rider
Note that they were about yearly or more until 1984. What changed at that time? I think the suspensions and brakes improved a lot in the mid-80s.
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Old 09-07-2010, 03:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seruzawa View Post
Note that they were about yearly or more until 1984. What changed at that time? I think the suspensions and brakes improved a lot in the mid-80s.
And then it goes a decade at a time (nearly) after Nobyuki Wakai.

Quite an impressive improvement, I would say.

"Zero" Deaths would be ideal, but likely not going to happen. It's a Variable World out there. Possibly Die in bed, or Die doing something you love - you get to choose, not that your choice will be given.
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