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Old 01-28-2003, 11:47 PM   #11
RD350B
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Default Re: Cannondale Chapter 11

Maybe now Cannondale can concentrate on it's bicycles again. A local bicycle shop that had sold Cannondale bikes for years dropped them because of rising costs, lower component quality, and poor sales.
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Old 01-29-2003, 12:05 AM   #12
RD350B
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Default Re: Cannondale Chapter 11

Cannondale let the bicycle division fall to concentrate on motorcycles. Many long-time Cannondale bicycle shops dropped them because of poor sales due to higher prices and lower component quality.



A local bicycle shop had some of the highest sales figures for Cannondale in the south and he dropped them about 2 years ago for the previous reasons.
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Old 01-29-2003, 03:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: Cannondale Chapter 11

First of all, Fox, go back and read my post again. I was saying the poster was 100% correct. His explination of why Cannondale failed, is a lesson on why Harley would fail, if they entered the sportbike arena. How that is an "unwarranted, aggressive attack" is beyond me, considering that I agreed with what he said, and would use his quote as a response to anyone that wanted Harley to do this. Sadly, the rest of your post is wrong also. You think Harley doesn't know it's audience? Do yo uthink they don't know what would sell and not sell and at what cost? You are assuming that they can sell sportbikes that perform less and are more expensive. Wrong. They know it, but apparently you and many others don't. If Joe Squidly can't brag about the fastest or the "shootout" winner or the "World Champion", they don't buy in sufficient numbers to remain in that market. Ask Triumph, Buell, Kawasaki(zx9 & zx12), and Honda(SuperHawk). Why is every ad touting race wins and shootout winners? How many ads could Harley run touting race wins or being picked a winner among sportbikes? NONE. I like your last sentence in that you would buy a V-Rod sportbike. So you would spend $16,000 for inferior performance to any $10,000 japanese model, because at that point you are competing head to head. And lines would form for this product? Not only not likely, but I would bet the farm against it. You touted Ducati many times in your post. Why don't you go look up Ducati's track record for making profits over the last 20 years. See how many times they got bailed out and bought out. Then compare the Harley balance sheet over the same 20 years and then we will talk about making money in the sportbike arena. Just to recap, I never attacked the first poster, but did agree that he was correct in his asessments. Harley heeding those words will keep them in business.
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Old 01-29-2003, 05:42 AM   #14
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Default Re: Cannondale Chapter 11

I was wondering when MO would give us some information on this since most of the rest of the world knew of Friday when it happened.



Why not mention something about the figures of their 2002 annual report that you can view on Cannondale's website? $24 million loss in the motorsports division. The bike division is highly profitable. Obviously this is a case of completely running the company into the ground through mismanagement. Someone should have started making cuts way before it got to this point. Now all the guys who had enough faith in the company to buy their motorcycles and atv's are basically screwed.
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Old 01-29-2003, 06:16 AM   #15
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Default Re: Cannondale Chapter 11

Looks likely. The clear goal of the reorg plan is to protect the (apparently) successful bicycle division. Looks like their main creditors are on board with the reorg plan, so, assuming that the bicycle business itself was financially sound, the Chapter 11 filing should allow that to continue without disruption.
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Old 01-29-2003, 06:26 AM   #16
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Default Re: Cannondale Chapter 11

Sorry, but I'm not going to jump on the "serves 'em right" bandwagon and lambaste them for attempting to enter a highly competitive market with a unique entry. They've sold bikes that are expensive when compared to similar products from other companies for years, and had comparable motorcycle models (Husqvarna, Husaberg, KTM, ATK, recently VOR) to base their launch on. Did they make a huge mistake starting with a new from scratch engine? Probably, but they did need something to set them apart from the others. There were rumors of alternate suspensions--maybe they should have done that first and followed up with a proprietary engine at some other point. Heck, even comparative giants like BMW and Aprilia outsourced one engine or another... But from what I read, maybe pure marketing hype, they really seemed to be into it for all the right reasons... like they have been with bikes all along. FWIW, I think they had a better chance and took a better shot than the E-H debacle or any of the harley clone companies, and if SuperMotard takes off, they might even rue the day they sold the motorsports division, their SM bike being compared very favorably to many others in the field.
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Old 01-29-2003, 06:51 AM   #17
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Default Re: Cannondale Chapter 11

I've often wondered why harley didn't label the Buell as its own. Perhaps Harley is waiting to see how it sells first.



I don't know if I agree with your 90% theory. I think a lot of squids here hate Harley and wouldn't buy one no matter what, especially if it offered less performance for more money.



The sportbike field is littered with good bikes that didn't sell because they weren't the "latest and greatest" (Honda Superhawk anyone?). And like longride says, squids are into magazine test numbers. Hell, KPaul keeps magazines in his tank bag I swear!



I'm reminded of a speaker I saw at a business conference a few years back. He was the CEO of a large pizza chain which got into trouble branching out into other markets (extra quick delivery, two for one cheap pizzas, etc.) His point in his speech was "know your niche."



Harley is the absolute definition of that.
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Old 01-29-2003, 07:27 AM   #18
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Default Re: Cannondale Chapter 11

Ditto.
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Old 01-29-2003, 08:39 AM   #19
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Default Re: Cannondale Chapter 11

Unfortunately, I have seen that happen far too often in business -- that is one of the big risks in diversifying ourside your core competency. Even if you have the capital etc, the new venture understandably gets most of management's attention and the core business often goes to Hell!



By the way, I LOVE your name!



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Old 01-29-2003, 08:46 AM   #20
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Default Re: Cannondale Chapter 11

I would think Polaris might be less at risk because it is better funded, and is closer to the core business.



Still, the economy is not optimum for someone trying to break into an established field, with what are, for most of us, expensive toys. I would not invest my money in a project which was tackling Harley or Ducati head on.



I would not be surprised to see Indian in Chapter 11 (if not 7) in the near future (note, this is not based on any financial analysis, just a sense of the marketplace).



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