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Old 01-23-2003, 05:38 AM   #11
saddlebag
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Default Re: Motorcycle Crash Study Update

You won't be enjoying much freedom on your motorcycle if no one maintains the roads, or if due to our lack of security Osama blows them up...
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Old 01-23-2003, 05:43 AM   #12
seruzawa
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Default Re: Motorcycle Crash Study Update

I basically agree with you. I was just taking a softer line to keep from upsetting the unwashed majority who seem to believe that the govt is the solution to everything.



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Old 01-23-2003, 06:40 AM   #13
BMW4VWW
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Default Re: Motorcycle Crash Study Update

Dear saddlebag. Sadly your post is typical of our uneducated citizenry who expect the great nanny state to meet everyone's needs. Our so called security could not protect us from two bozos with a rifle and a whole cut in the trunk of their chevy, let alone someone with brains bent on wreaking havoc on a large scale. As for taking care of our roads, they are supposed to be maintained with the constitutionaly legal excise tax that we pay on gasoline and tires. VWW
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Old 01-23-2003, 06:50 AM   #14
KPaulCook
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Default Excellent Post

"I shake my head in wonder at the AMA supporting this and yet lobbying hot'n'heavy against helmet laws. Seems contradictory to say the least" Well said I totally agree with you.

I would rather see the AMA concentrate on your last point.

"The last thing we will see is the implementation of stiffer penalties for right of way violations and moving vehicle violations that result in injury or death--until that happens, expect"

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Old 01-23-2003, 06:57 AM   #15
sportbike_pilot
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Default Re: Motorcycle Crash Study Update

Abe,



Generally I'd agree with you - but on this one I'd have to support the concept of a publicly funded study simply because I think it'll actually cost us all less in the end.



Unless you are studying an issue that is very mainstream (and affects a large percentage of the population) it has been my experience that you are unlikely to get a single, unbiased, well-run, privately funded study. For a study affecting motorcyclists the only two groups likely to have the time, werewithal, and resources to conduct such a study would be the insurance industry and perhaps the AMA - and these are both entities not verly likely to produce results that do not simply verify their pre-existing belief structures.



When you pass legislation based on bad information it ultimately is either unproductive or even counterproductive and usually costs us all money in terms of economic inefficiency and litigation. So I, personally, would rather take a shot at having a reasonably good study done by the most unbiased folks I can find and if that means public funding so be it.



As others have rightly pointed out in this thread there are publicly funded studies that aren't worth the paper they are written on (I review a good number of these for a living), but I still maintain that your best shot, at issues outside the mainstream, lies with researchers more interested in finding answers than verifying pre-existing beliefs. And that generally means the government-funded, peer-review studies.



Admissions like this come hard for a libertarian so take it easy on me, OK



sbp
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Old 01-23-2003, 07:25 AM   #16
Hadji
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Default My Two Cents!

Now, I'm not 100% sure of this, but I could swear that the Japanese have a law that declares an automobile driver at fault if they state they didn't see the motorcyclist they were involved in an accident with. There should be some hierarchy of responsibiliy required based on the size i.e. mass of the vehicles on the road. Something like pedestrian, biclyclist, motorcyclist, automobiles to 2500 lbs, automobiles greater than 2500 lbs, tractor trailers, etc with the pedestrian at the bottom. So for someone to say I didn't see anyone below them would indicate that they were negligent, since operation of the larger vehicle and it's inherent limitations would require them to drive more responsibly. The larger vehicle can deliver greater damage to all of the lesser vehicles.



Now I know there are the legal types who could shoot holes through this, but it is logical.
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Old 01-23-2003, 08:28 AM   #17
ValknMag
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Default Re: Motorcycle Crash Study Update

If the AMA funded a university study, I'd think that peer review and the university's desire to maintain credibility would produce an unbiased report. The AMA could cook the statistics to their point of view, as could any other group, but the original report would be available to both sides of any debate. Yes, I know that university professors, graduate students, etc. have been burned in the past for falsifying data, but the this would very likely be the best bet for an unbiased report.
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Old 01-23-2003, 08:39 AM   #18
12er
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Default Re: My Two Cents!

You forget in America its always someone elses fault for anything we do. If I didnt see you, its your fault for not being easily seen. I'm fat, its McDonalds fault for making me eat that big mac. I broke my arm falling through your bedroom window when I went in to steal your TV, now you owe me since You didnt leave the door open...
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Old 01-23-2003, 08:41 AM   #19
elitegeezer
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Default Re: Motorcycle Crash Study Update

I think the tiered licensing is a great idea. They do it in australia too. The rule there is that you can't ride anything bigger than a 250 for the first year.



know what that means? Loads more fun 250s on the market, and not as many idiots on R1s who can't ride.
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Old 01-23-2003, 08:49 AM   #20
douglst
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Default Re: Motorcycle Crash Study Update

Just think aloud, but I wonder if there have been any overseas studies on motorcycle safety, and if they would be applicable to the US riders. It seems that in Europe and Australia motorcyclist generally arenÂ’t viewed as being a fringe group by law makers as we are here.
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