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Old 12-04-2002, 10:31 AM   #21
rsheidler
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Default Re: Hope they do better with the bike than the P.R.

>>Build the whole damn bike<<



Face it, nobody does that, not even the big Japanese companies, or BMW. They all outsource major components (when was the last time someone made their own suspension or brakes, for example). Hell, Ford, GM, Damalier-Chrysler et al outsource major components. How in Hell can a small, start-up do so, and, for that matter, WHY should they?



The specialty car and bike market has always utilized as many existing components as possible -- if/when they become successful, that start bringing more in house. Think Lotus, Panoz, Cobra, Bimota. Don't see anybody $hitting on them for using motors from existing manufacturers!
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Old 12-04-2002, 10:39 AM   #22
Grover
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Default Re: Hope they do better with the bike than the P.R.

What I've never understood is why more people haven't tried to go the Tul-aris route and use a snowmobile engine in a motorcycle. Polaris, Ski-Doo, Arctic-Cat... aren't these all american companies? I'm not big into snowmobiles but I do know that they are about the same or better than most motorcycles when it comes to power/weight ratio, and KPaul's legendary price/performance ratio is probably right up there too with the sleds.



I will concede that until recently most, if not all, snowmobiles have been 2-strokes, but I swear I've heard of several manufacturers offering 4-strokes recently, what with the new EPA regs. and all.



I've wanted to take a big old 2-stroke snowmobile engine and build a bike around it for a long time now. I've got the engineering resources to get it designed and built, all I've been missing is some ching. Feel free to contact me with your offerings of investment capital.
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Old 12-04-2002, 10:52 AM   #23
rsheidler
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Default Re: Hope they do better with the bike than the P.R.

Exactly. Developing a new engine for a cruiser is a big enough stretch -- even for experienced and well funded entities like Polaris. At least with cruisers, you have a reasonably long product life cycle over which to amortize the development costs. To try do so with a cutting edge sportbike, where you are shooting at a constantly fast-moving target, keeping up with much better funded Japanese and Italian competitors, would just be hopeless (and stupid).



There are specialty companies (eg Sauber in Switzerland, and several in Britan) which can quickly design and produce limited numbers of race-only engines (eg the new V-5 for Roberts/Petronas) but these do not have to be suitable for mass production at reasonable cost, or to comply with any environmental requirements, do not have to accommodate all the periphrials associated with a road bike/car, do not have to have reasonable service intervals, don't have to last more than a few hundred miles, don't have to idle in traffic withour overheating. All in all, a much simpler set of design paramaters.
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Old 12-04-2002, 11:07 AM   #24
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Default Re: Hope they do better with the bike than the P.R.

It's made by Porsche.
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Old 12-04-2002, 11:29 AM   #25
rsheidler
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Default Re: Press Release: New American Sportbike

>>waiting for Buell to build the first "real" American Sportbike <<



In what way is the Buell NOT a real American Sportbike? I can understand that you may not like it, but how can you say it is not a real sportbike? That is like saying that the '57 Corvette was not a real American Sportscar just because it was not as fast, or as sophisticated as a D-Jag, Mercedes 300SL, Porsche or Ferrari of the same era. Or, maybe the late '50's Bug-Eye Sprites were not real British Sportscars because they used motors from utilitarian passenger cars. Ditto for Lotus 7s. And early '50's Porsches were not real German Sportscars because they really were little more than rebodied, souped-up VW Beetles.



Nobody lately has claimed that my Ducati 900SS is not a real sportbike, but on the track, I have frequently had my a$$ kicked by Buells. They seemed pretty sporting at the time!



I agree that they probably will not match lap times with the cutting edge 600 sportbikes from Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki or Suzuki, but on a twisty back road, given equal riding talent, a Buell will, at worst, hold its own, and likely embarass the 600s.



It certainly is your perogitive to prefer high-reving inline 4s to pushrod V-twins, just as it is your perogitive to prefer a '62 Ferrari GTO to a '62 Cobra roadster. However, to jump to the conclusion that the Buell is not a real sportbike is as effin stupid as claiming that the Cobra was not a real sportscar just because it used a pushrod V8 instead of a dohc V12.

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Old 12-04-2002, 11:29 AM   #26
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Default Re: Timing of on-line vs print reporting

I'm going with '4'...



So far we have a few concept drawings, a frame design, an engine, and no bikes. It's still a little premature to start the flag-waving and whatnot.



Like everyone else, I just can't get all excited by this "American Sportbike" when it's just another mutt with a Rotax motor. Same goes for the 'new Vincent'. That's a neat-looking bike, but that RC51 engine just makes it another imitation. At least Triumph came up with a unique engine family for their resurrection. If we're going to tout the next great American sportbike I want to see an American heart in there pumping out horsepower, not some borrowed powerplant from elsewhere that's already well-known in sexier bikes.



Here's my easy prediction: A few sales, too high a price for the performance, and a decision to close the doors in five years.



-=Goggles=-
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Old 12-04-2002, 11:38 AM   #27
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Default Re: Hope they do better with the bike than the P.R.

Look at Polaris which has already had to redesign that engine once. That would have put a start up company out of business (and it did with the E-H debacle).



There seem to be a lot of young squids who have a complete lack of understanding of even basic economics.



Hopefully if the new Buell sell reasonably well the company will invest in a much lighter weight and more compact engine more suitable for a sportbike. It could still be air-cooled even.



I'd be surprised if this new venture ever sees the light of day.
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Old 12-04-2002, 11:42 AM   #28
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Default I'm not biting KPaul-san

In case you haven't noticed, that is a cartoon illustration of a motorcycle. I think even you could draw a pretty cool looking motorcycle (did I just say that?). Building one is a different story.



So have you seen the 999 in the flesh or you just going by what you've read again?
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Old 12-04-2002, 11:44 AM   #29
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Default Re: Press Release: New American Sportbike

you realize KPaul-sans eyes glazed over about two sentences into your reply.



Too many words for him and it wasn't published in a "motorcycle magazine."
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Old 12-04-2002, 11:46 AM   #30
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Default Re: Hope they do better with the bike than the P.R.

No, Porsche helped them design it. Do you think that that is any sort of a unique situation?



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