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Old 04-06-2009, 04:00 PM   #11
dewdlebug
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Following up, for anyone that's interested.. or simply a mental note for myself:

It's improved very much. I believe it was something I picked up back in MSF where I was leaning on my front brakes a little too much and kept doing it when I started riding on the streets.

What I've done now whenever I approach a need to stop is first off, tap off the front brake levers to notify the person behind me that I'm slowing down - that's something my cousins that ride out west taught me to get in a habit of for good road practice. Then ease into the stop with the back brake and apply the front brake if I still need it, keeping my right foot busy and forcing my left to be the one to drop when I get into a complete stop, or close to it. So far this has working pretty well.

I'd try this cycling too but that's mostly been limited to stationary bikes since I've been out riding more on days when it's between one or the other.
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Old 04-06-2009, 04:09 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by dewdlebug View Post
Following up, for anyone that's interested.. or simply a mental note for myself:

It's improved very much. I believe it was something I picked up back in MSF where I was leaning on my front brakes a little too much and kept doing it when I started riding on the streets.

What I've done now whenever I approach a need to stop is first off, tap off the front brake levers to notify the person behind me that I'm slowing down - that's something my cousins that ride out west taught me to get in a habit of for good road practice. Then ease into the stop with the back brake and apply the front brake if I still need it, keeping my right foot busy and forcing my left to be the one to drop when I get into a complete stop, or close to it. So far this has working pretty well.

I'd try this cycling too but that's mostly been limited to stationary bikes since I've been out riding more on days when it's between one or the other.
You should be cautious about relying on that back brake too much - you had the Right of it using your front brake primarily. If ever you need to really "Drop Anchor" on it some time (and it WILL happen eventually - if not tomorrow) Practiced Instincts will kick in - and if you've been "practicing" with the back brake - what do you suppose your body will revert-to automagically when it really counts? (remember your MSF course lessons on the percentage of braking force and capacity?)

The "blip" of the brakelight a time or two is a good practice, BTW. Even in a cage.

In trying to unlearn one bad habit, you're picking-up another that might get you splattered across some blue-haired lil' ol' ladies' hood.
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Old 04-06-2009, 05:50 PM   #13
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. Dealer suggested keeping it in neutral at stops as it doesnt like to ride the throw out bearing longer than it has to.
I don't like to leave any clutch, car or bike, riding on the throw out bearing. I always go into neutral till the staging light goes yellow in the other lanes.

Somebody might say I should be in gear in case I need to speed away from a car bearing down from behind. Guess there might be something to that.
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:21 PM   #14
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You should be cautious about relying on that back brake too much - you had the Right of it using your front brake primarily. If ever you need to really "Drop Anchor" on it some time (and it WILL happen eventually - if not tomorrow) Practiced Instincts will kick in - and if you've been "practicing" with the back brake - what do you suppose your body will revert-to automagically when it really counts? (remember your MSF course lessons on the percentage of braking force and capacity?)

The "blip" of the brakelight a time or two is a good practice, BTW. Even in a cage.

In trying to unlearn one bad habit, you're picking-up another that might get you splattered across some blue-haired lil' ol' ladies' hood.
Already have; less than a second long yellow lights turning with about 2-3 car lengths to either stop or gun it - most of the time, I stop dependent on how much traffic flow that intersection has, left turning cars jumping the turn while my flow is open and herky jerky lane switchers in traffic when cutting in between lanes. In all those occasions, I stalled once but the training from one of the MSF finals on emergency braking kicked in naturally. On that stall, I felt my back tire fishtail a bit and the front brakes locking up. Guess I slammed on it that hard. Probably lucky that the vehicle behind me at the time wasn't tailgating my ass.

When I was on the road breaking in my post MSF mileage, I was told by friends and family that were riding with me at the time that they observed me relying way too heavily on the front brakes so much so that the back tire would rise a little and the front wanting to dip. That's probably part of the change on me trying to get into using the back brakes more involved.
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:23 PM   #15
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You should be in gear in case you need to speed away from a car bearing down from behind.
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:56 PM   #16
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When I was on the road breaking in my post MSF mileage, I was told by friends and family that were riding with me at the time that they observed me relying way too heavily on the front brakes so much so that the back tire would rise a little and the front wanting to dip. That's probably part of the change on me trying to get into using the back brakes more involved.
Ignore what they say about that, the front-end "dipping" has more to do with spring-rates and fork-valving than "too much use" of the front brake.

Seriously, the only bikes that don't dive on application of the front brake are either stupidly oversprung on the front, or are BMW's with their funky unequal-length control-arms in their Telelever and Hotchkiss-type suspensions. And that's because they're engineered NOT to - if you don't get weight-transfer to the front tire on a standard fork, you're not getting full braking performance.

I can tell you, if they're paying THAT much attention to YOUR braking that they can determine exactly how much contact-patch you have under your rear tire, and their last name isn't "Code", "DuHamel", "Rossi", "Spencer", or "Stoner" they're not paying NEARLY-enough to their own, and would be about the last people on this planet I'd take braking advice from, no matter how well-practiced or well-meaning they believe themselves to be.

I loved my Dad and everything, but I found out later that roughly 97% of everything he taught me when I was first learning to ride a moto was complete CRAP!

If only I'd known a better way to do it sooner, I might even be able to claim some small skill in riding to this day. I've been riding since ~8 or 9, and am now 38, with a couple of years hiatus in my late-teens: but I didn't know I'd been doing it "all wrong" until I was probably ~24 or so, and have been steadily trying to work all those ingrained Bad Habits out of my technique. Not entirely with success, either.

At least though, I recognize my shortcomings. It's also why I seldom ride with others, especially "Biker Packs" - because I've been nearly killed almost every time I've ridden with the likes of the Patriot Guard. The last time was the final straw - when a woman on a chopper blamed "that damned front brake" on the collision I had to narrowly avert by riding off-highway - when it was really just a lack of general skill and total unfamiliarity with her own bike. And I'm absolutely certain she and all of her friends thought of herself as a "Skilled Rider".
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:16 AM   #17
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I don't pretend to be any expert, but I can try to relay some technique that I was taught in advanced riding courses.

The "excessive" front-end diving isn't from overuse of the front brake, but rather from likely chopping the throttle and the way that the brake is applied. These need to be done very smoothly - roll off the throttle rather than letting it snap to the stop, and squeeze the brake rather than stabbing it. These things will allow the bike to hunker down on the suspension as opposed to pitching forward abruptly. In "normal," dry conditions, you can safely stop very quickly with only the front brake. The rear brake can settle the bike and help to slow you as well, but should not be used as the primary.

This comes from Lee Parks, and he'll have a much better description of it in his book - or even better in his courses.
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:17 AM   #18
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I can tell you, if they're paying THAT much attention to YOUR braking that they can determine exactly how much contact-patch you have under your rear tire, and their last name isn't "Code", "DuHamel", "Rossi", "Spencer", or "Stoner" they're not paying NEARLY-enough to their own, and would be about the last people on this planet I'd take braking advice from, no matter how well-practiced or well-meaning they believe themselves to be.
I think the most awesome display of braking I've ever seen was a picture taken during a race where Miguel Duhamel was passing some guy on the inside on a decelerating turn, and his back tire was three inches off the ground. Unreal!
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:35 AM   #19
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Huh. I'm going through the same thing right now and I never thought about that. I'm kinda new to riding (Hello all!) and now that I think about it I do the same thing. I usually just put my right foot down and lean right. I have been a little slow at lights but this should help me. Thanks
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Old 04-20-2009, 12:36 PM   #20
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Okay. Ran into something weird yesterday. Whenever I engaged a lean on banking curves, I'd feel my back tire slide/slip. At first I thought it was because the patch I just rode over had a little sand on it and shrugged it off, but it persisted later on the day. It left me feeling a little nervous. I checked the tire pressure when I got a station and it read 42 psi, just what the tires said.

Any idea why the tires are sliding/slipping?
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