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Old 01-11-2004, 09:29 AM   #61
sarnali
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Default Re: Thrust curves

Cathrine-Zeta-Jones has the best curves, and I'm only 15 years older than her instead of 30.
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Old 01-11-2004, 09:38 AM   #62
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Default Re: V-rod Vanquishes Vulcan in Value Validation

New Harleys are actually selling for MSRP up here for the first time in 15yrs. All those Vasaline tax Victims might find their resale Value diminished.

Imagine having to buy a motorcycle just to ride it instead of as an inVestment item.
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Old 01-11-2004, 09:39 AM   #63
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Default Re: Vulcan 2000 Teaser

In Canada...



V2K $18 999.00 MSRP



V-Rod $25 349.00 MSRP (solid paint w/no accessories)



Considering MSRP alone the Harley is a third again as much...



THis doesn't take into account the typical HD dealer gouging.... I looked at some V-Rods at H-D of Calgary this summer which were listed at 32k plus tax. And the average Kawasaki dealer here will probably let you "jew them down" a bit.



Say you negotiate a price of 18500 for the Kawi, plus 200 for assembly. Total is $20009.00 with 7% sales tax.



At HD of Calgary you pay 32k plus 200 for assembly (?) plus tax the total is $34454.00.



(34454-20009) / 20009 = .072



Now you're paying a 72% premium for the V-Rod. Cool bike, but still worth it?



OK "twice as much" was out to lunch but if you were to actually go and buy them you'd still pay a pretty substantial premium for the Harley.



And that doesn't take into consideration the cost for the required "Authentic Screaming Eagle H-D Merchandise Tough Guy Biker Costume" (tm) **tattoos and goatee sold separately**
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Old 01-11-2004, 09:47 AM   #64
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Default Re: Vulcan 2000 Teaser

If V-Rod is the direction that the cruisers will eventually head, well, nobody is heading that way.



The huddled masses don't want a torque-challenged high RPM "cruiser".



- cruiz-euro
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Old 01-11-2004, 10:38 AM   #65
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Default Re: Vulcan 2000 Teaser

Kawasaki and other manufacturers who are trying to topple the v-twin market are missing the mark. They try to do so with bigger is better, etc., etc. However, Harley is uniquely American and has that market hands down in ways far beyond simply manufacturing a v-twin...it's an icon.



No matter what is put out there in the v-twin segment it is doubtful that it will ever gain the market share they so desire. Triumph, with their own interpretation of large cruiser is the only one with any credence of cutting into the that market share because they got smart and chose to put out an inline three. No matter how good they are, how much bigger they are, no matter what, the Japanese will never get the v-twin market share they so desire. Harley is still Harley. Yes, they are those H-D dealers that gouge and I am against that altogether, but what Harley has NO other manufacturer has in the v-twin world.
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Old 01-11-2004, 10:54 AM   #66
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Default Re: Vulcan 2000 Teaser

Nope. I do have a B.Eng, though.



What can I say: magazines/people quoting peak torque values without context is one of my hot buttons. The simple fact is that peak torque isn't a very reliable indicator of performance.



-- Michael





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Old 01-11-2004, 11:29 AM   #67
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Default Re: Vulcan 2000 Teaser

"Less intelligent" is a bit harsh: the fact is that many people don't really understand the relationship between torque and horsepower, and that magazines quite often confuse the issue.



The concepts aren't really that hard, and the math involved is pretty simple.



A quick calculation based on your post:



Assume we want to spin a rear wheel at 1000 rpm. What's the torque applied to that wheel for these two engines? ( Assuming full throttle, and that we gear for the torque peak. )



Geared down to 1000 rpm, the Vulcan will have 366 lbft of torque at the rear.

( 3000/1000 = 3 ; 3*122 = 366 )



Geared down to 1000 rpm, the FZ1 will have ~548 lbft of torque at the rear.



It's not a complete example by any means, but it does illustrate the point...



-- Michael



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Old 01-11-2004, 11:45 AM   #68
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Default Re: Vulcan 2000 Teaser

I'll bet you could get a VRod below MSRP here in SoCal.



I've purchased two Harleys and never paid a dime over MSRP for either one.



The real markup is in the goatee. You have to forego that part.
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Old 01-11-2004, 11:50 AM   #69
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Default Re: Vulcan 2000 Teaser

I've been using that line in bars for years now.



Hey baby, "Peak torque isn't a very reliable indicator of performance."
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Old 01-11-2004, 12:14 PM   #70
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Default Re: CBR1000

So, which one would you get, had you the inkling to do such a thing?
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