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Old 02-08-2005, 08:15 AM   #31
pdad13
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Default Re: Clipped Wings

I think you misunderstood. I was speaking in terms of marketing. My point was that Honda's reputation for reliablility was made during a period when the other manufacturers were selling far less reliable machines and that it didn't have that much to do with advertising and marketing. You can advertise quality all you want, but if you sell a lousy product, it's suicide--and word will spread so fast, no amount of advertising will be able to maintain that facade.



Honda was so far and away superior during that time, it became the clear quality leader--it established a fine reputation amoung owners, dealers and the press. My point is that most people still believe that Honda is the best in terms of reliability, in large part, because the failures of the 70s still linger around the other brands. Stupid, yes. But when people form perceptions, especially over many years, even cold hard facts don't necessarily change them, at least not in the short term.



Just the fact that many people still believe Harleys, for example, are far less reliable than most other bikes--especially the Japanese--proves that perception is more powerful than reality. Past performance is no guarantee of future performance, but most people believe it's an indication of future, or, er, present performance.



Now, if Honda continues to have these mishaps over an extended period of time, people may start to think otherwise.



You'd be hard pressed to find any bad bikes today. But people still believe Honda is supreme, even if it's not grounded in reality. Why do you think may here take such glee in pointing out Honda's failures?
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Old 02-08-2005, 08:22 AM   #32
lukam
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Default Re: What the F$%^!!!

Whose feathers are ruffled?



I believe it was you who got all upset trying to defend someone who voluntarily offered their personnal opinion on how they just bought a bike that is now recalled. I actually have the profound opinion that people are responsible for their own actions and why should I have a bunch of sympathy for someone who obviously has the means to purchase a toy for several thousand dollars and then ***** because he didn't get what he wanted.



This problem with Gold Wings is not new. And your same tired argument has been made before. When Honda has a recall it is a serious safety issue that cannot be joked about because someone might get hurt. But when Harley has a recall it is a big joke because only posers and idiots ride Harleys and they make junk motorcycles anyway.



I am actually proud you think I am an A$$hole, at least I have the balls to state my opinion and not cry because my feelings are hurt.



Come on now tumbler do you need a group hug?

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Old 02-08-2005, 08:35 AM   #33
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Default Re: Clipped Wings

I agree with you that Honda has had periods of outstanding reliability in many of their products, but I have to disagree on a couple of points.



1) Honda has had reliability problems, the 70s CVCC civic comes to mind as well as the pressed frame step through trail 90s, 110s, etc. But those lousy products do not seem to be remembered. I believe some of this has to do with the "America bad Japanese good" philosophy in some parts of the American society



2) I don't believe any 70s problems linger in Harley, Triumph, Norton,...etc. If you could offer an example in my opinion you would really be pulling at strings.



3) Why is there such glee in pointing out Harley failures if they don't have a supreme product.



Stating opinions as fact (Hondas are all perfect) is just asinine in my opinion.

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Old 02-08-2005, 08:39 AM   #34
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Default Re: Clipped Wings

Ok Ok Ok I'll take the bait. Yes proper maintenance was performed on both bikes, but I want to thank you guys for making my argument for me.



From your comments :



Your Honda's broke down? you must have not done proper maintenance Hondas are perfect.....



Your Harley broke down? your bike is a piece of crap that is why it broke down.....



Thanks for playing
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Old 02-08-2005, 09:09 AM   #35
KillerKowalski
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Default Re: Clipped Wings

Did you just feel a breeze? Like a few paragraphs flying through your hair?
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Old 02-08-2005, 09:25 AM   #36
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Default He used to own one...

...Zippy. Maybe he just finds it ironic that every manufacturer, even the almighty Honda is subject to major f-ups. I'm sure your favorite pitcher is getting a wry smirk out of it too. Wry smirks are possible when you're not biting pillows. Zippy.
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Old 02-08-2005, 09:26 AM   #37
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Default Re: Clipped Wings

Nobody will really know how similar the reliability of today's bikes are for quite some time. Hence, old reputations die hard.



Honda had to work for years to get that reputation, more through rigorous manufacturing than advertising. If bikes today are as similar as you say, then in a few more years they won't have much of that left. I don't see that as the "biggest screw over of the american people," since Hondas don't cost noticeably more than other bikes.



Harleys do cost more than (most) competing bikes. However, this widespread FUD about them doesn't seem to be damaging HD bike sales very much, much less the clothing line.
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Old 02-08-2005, 09:47 AM   #38
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Default Re: Clipped Wings

1. All companies have quality problems. The complex nature of motorcycles (and cars) makes this especially true. However, I doubt you could say Hondas are low or even mediocre quality.



2. I wasn't referring to any actual problems that linger in Triumphs, Harleys, Nortons, etc. I was referring to a long-held perceptions that they make an inferior product in terms of reliability, primarily based on a bygone era. None of the brands I mentioned are really even made by the same companies as they were then, but when people hear "Triumph," they don't think high-quality, at least not in the same way they do when Honda is mentioned. New Triumphs are actually excellent, high-reliability bikes. But it's easier to revamp the actual product than the reputation. The old perceptions are finally changing, but it doesn't happen overnight.



3. Well, if there's anything that Honda and H-D have in common, it's that they're both at the top of the heap. People like to tear down icons. They're both seen as homogenizing forces, monoliths, possibly even manipulative. Eventually, some people start to resent them. People who don't like H-D seize any opportunity to summon the demons of the AMF error, er, era. People who don't like Honda like to rub quality problems in Honda's smug, superior face and call them hypocrites. In that sense, it's two sides of the same coin.



But you're right; no bike is perfect. That's reality. I've been drawing the distinction between perception and reality. I believe that Honda (and even the rest of the big 4) is believed to be the most reliable, in large part, because the other brands still have a perception problem to address, not because their products are clearly inferior.
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Old 02-08-2005, 09:55 AM   #39
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Default Re: Clipped Wings puh-leeze

Oh for Chri$t sakes, how many Goldwing frames have actually failed?



Probably just some PR rap with the DOT to make sure Honda stays on top of things.



Maybe somewhere, somehow someone cracked a frame or two (Goldwing-o-cross?) and HondaÂ’s legal department issued a memo.



After all, when you're number 1, everybody's out to get you.

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Old 02-08-2005, 10:09 AM   #40
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Default Re: Clipped Wings

Agree with all your points



Good discussion



I got to go ride.....................
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