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Old 06-22-2003, 05:01 AM   #21
seruzawa
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Default Re: ST 1300 problems?

So, my memories of my '71 Datsun 510 that ran and ran and ran without problems vs American junk cars of the time is what? A planted hallucination by the Yakuza?



One can 'prove' anything by picking and choosing the data they want to present. This is how nutsos 'prove' that aircraft contrails are actually a form of secret govt chemical warfare against its own population. Or how shrinks 'prove' that normal children are 'hyperactive' so they can make billions pushing drugs. Or how how it's been 'proven' that it was Israeli intelligence that was behind 9-11.



All the above are idiot ideas... but 'proven'.



I agree with you about the Japanese xenophobia, havng spent a couple of years home-ported at Yokosuka in 69-71. I was once chased down the street by a group of rock wielding Japanese girls for daring to simply say hi to them while walking by. "Do not talk to us." The Japanese do not have toilets. They have a hole on the floor in the restrooms you are supposed to squat over. Quite an alien culture for us. On the other hand the two worst places I ever visited, for treatment of us swabjockeys, were Subic Bay and San Diego.



But reality is that American cars of the 60's, 70's and 80's were for the most part utter junk. At the same time Japanese (and some european cars) gave good value for the money. This is exactly how Japanese cars gained such popularity. I remember how surprised my family members where when one of my aunts had bought a 70 Datsun and had driven it for over a year without it ever going back to the dealer for repair. What a shock! So don't try to tell me it's a myth. That's utter crap.



The worst car I ever owned was an '80 Mustang. Complete crap. My current car, a 95 Subaru, has been nearly troublefree over 120K miles so far. To be fair my 98 Chev K2500 4x4 has 80K on it with only a couple of repairs. But right now it is suffering the effects of the new red antifreeze that (I found out too late) eats up the intake manifold gasket. So now I've got to change out the gasket and flush the coolant. This appears to be more purposeful self-destruction engineered into the vehicle. A common characteristic of American cars.



Japanese cars aren't perfect. But the track record generally has shown them to have superior quality. This has changed a lot in recent years with many American cars showing excellent reliability ratings.



But perception is everything and my personal experiences ensure that I will never ever buy a Ford or Chevy car again. The ravings of some academic in some ivory tower can't change that.
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Old 06-22-2003, 05:37 AM   #22
nweaver
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Default Speculation on heat?

Is part of the heat problem simply that the FJR and ST both are now stressed-member engines with big aluminum frames, and the frame is acting as a secondary heatsink for engine heat?
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Old 06-22-2003, 06:10 AM   #23
Van
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Default Re: Speculation on heat?

Could be a contributing factor, but the main problem with the ST isn't stored heat. No, the problem is it's radiating heat that blows on the rider's lower legs at speed.



I could probably live with it if were just a problem that occured while idling, or moving through traffic very slowly. That's not all that uncommon.



The problem with the ST is that the heat is at its worst at freeway speeds, where you simply can't get away from it. That simply won't do on a bike designed and marketed as a long distance mount...
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Old 06-22-2003, 06:17 AM   #24
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Default Re: ST 1300 problems?

I would absolutely recommend a friend to a GoldWing or a VFR.



I've yet to see a Gold Wing actually overheat, despite the temp needle's reading. Our mechanics have demonstrated to me the discrepancy between the reading and the actual motor temperature.



If that friend lived in the Southwest of the United States, or in any hot climate anywhere, I'd tell him to avoid the ST until Honda more thoroughly addresses the heat issue.



If he lived in the Pacific Northwest or anyplace similarly temperate I'd tell him to go for it, as my bike was an absolute joy during winter and early spring.



The ST had three issues which were supposedly addressed during its delayed release: The heat issue (not fixed), a protruding tang on the oil sump which could get knocked off, resulting in major Bad Things (fixed) and the high speed instability issue (fixed).....
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Old 06-22-2003, 06:30 AM   #25
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Default Re: ST 1300 problems?

All one needs to do is to monitor industry ratings regarding items such as Warranty Issues, Recalls and the Customer Satisfaction Index stats to see that it's no myth that on the whole Honda is far and away the most reliable motorcycle product and Harley/Buell is by far the least reliable.



If that doesn't do it for you simply call any multi line dealership (especially one that offers both Harley and Japanese products) and ask for the Service Manager.



Get him on the line and ask him, "Hey, I'm Joe Blow, and I'm considering purchasing a new product, either a Harley or something from Japan. I want a turn key bike; no issues after I buy it. You see what happens with 'em all, in terms of reliability and durability. From that standpoint, what would YOU recommend?"



I can almost guarantee you that without exception that Service Manager would steer you to a Honda product first, followed by the other Japanese products, with Harley bringing up the rear.



BMW would score well on the durability pecking order while being well below the Big Four (but well above Harley) in reliability.
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Old 06-22-2003, 07:59 AM   #26
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Default Re: ST 1300 problems?

The electrical problems on VFR's are real, as a former owner of a '97 and a reader of VFR web sites at the time I can tell you the charging systems on VFR's are not up to the standards set by the rest of the industry. They're great bikes and fun to ride but a significant number of charging systems fail repeatedly.
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Old 06-22-2003, 09:35 AM   #27
nweaver
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Default Where is the heat coming out?

Is it coming out from around the engine heads or in the gap between the fairing and the frame?

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Old 06-22-2003, 11:39 AM   #28
Lowrez
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Default Re: ST 1300 problems?

My father-in-law was part of the team that studied the Japanese car quality for General Motors back in the early 80's. In his opinion, those cars were built much better than their American counterparts (in the same class, not between classes). Though the term isn't "flaw" it's "discrepency". Apparently, the lawyers don't like you saying there is a flaw with your product.



The way he puts it, the Japanese proved you could dominate the market by building a superior product with average marketing. Saturn proved you could get a good hunk of the market by making an average product and giving the best customer service possible.



Funny, he's in talks with Toyota right now to come over and help their customer focus. He was stunned to learn that what he implemented at GM (and they assumed all the Japanese were doing) is exactly what they want him to bring to them now.
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Old 06-22-2003, 12:28 PM   #29
Van
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Default Re: Where is the heat coming out?

It radiates from off the engine heads...



It radiates from the bottom of the fairing, below the cutout for the engine heads...



It covers you from mid thigh to your toes.



Even on a 90 degree day you can hold your hand up and feel the normal 90 degree air, and then you bring your hand back into the affected areas and it feels like someone's holding a heat gun set on full "hot" on your lower legs.



The "hot" area extends from the bodywork to more than a foot outside your leg, out in what should be clean air. You can also feel it at the back of your thighs, and even my wife was noticing it reaching her legs.
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Old 06-22-2003, 12:41 PM   #30
electraglider_1997
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Default Re: ST 1300 problems?

One of the points the Professor made was that these people wouldn't own up to these problems on surveys. Read the book. As for the comment about the Buell, I'm sure they have deserved the bad press but I understand that the Firebolts are very solid quality bikes. I'd love to have the new Firebolt Lightning if I could buy one without my wife murdering me. She has her heart and mind set on buying a 2004 Prius Hybrid car when they hit the dealer in October.
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