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Old 06-27-2006, 11:43 AM   #31
seruzawa
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Default Re: XB9R or Z1000 ?

The VR motor is way too large and heavy. Buell would have to build an engine from the ground up and HD is unlikely to invest the beans.



Plus, people would just moan about Porsche having helped design the VR motor (as if the Japanese never hire outside help *snicker*).
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Old 06-27-2006, 12:58 PM   #32
mscuddy
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Default Re: straight

Was that the one with the cylinder head that looked like a two stroke but held some exotic valve assembly that went out of adjustment the minute the revs went above idle?



I had a Moto-Beta 175 with a giant finned crankcase sump, looked like a goiter. Never ran but was sure fun to coast down hills. Finally ruined my buddy's Triumph 250 Trophy from towing it around in some vain effort to start it, so we set it on fire in the LA River. A Vikings death.



Horrible bike. Was painted in tastefull shades of green, purple and yellow. Had those goofy black spongy plastic Italian grips on it that made your hands sweat. It sucked.
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Old 06-27-2006, 01:10 PM   #33
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Default Re: XB9R or Z1000 ?

Amen brother. And when mine get's old and creaky and needs a motor there's just all kinda folks out there who know how to make a sporty motor put out major hp.



It's a keeper.
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Old 06-27-2006, 03:26 PM   #34
balpo
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Default Re: XB9R or Z1000 ?

I'd go the Buell. It really is better to ride than adjust valves IMHO. Less maintenance, less weight and more torque. But if you're gonna ride double a lot go Kowalsky.
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Old 06-27-2006, 03:41 PM   #35
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Default Re: XB9R or Z1000 ?

Its not a power issue, the BUELL generates plenty of power in my opinion. I just don't like the slow revving nature of the mill and its paint shaker idle.



I agree that the thruxton is underpowered but as they say, its a lot more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.



To be honest, I think if Triumph added a second disk at the front and managed to generate 80RWHP while maintaining their torque curve the thruxton would be perfect. All those prospective Norton Buyers would be beating a path to triumphs door.



With relatively little modification I think I can get it to around 65 RWHP and that may be enough.



I think the thruxton and the 883 sportster have a lot in common in terms of target markets, its just that to me, the thruxton is a subtle and sophisticated tool and the 883 is a brash, come and get me, tool. The buell lies somewhere in between, it seems to be a paradox of subtlety and brute force. Does that make any sense?

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Old 06-27-2006, 03:52 PM   #36
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Default Re: straight

A friend of mine had a Sachs 125 two-smoke with giant cooling fins and a front end that looked like that contraption on the late Excelsior-Henderson.



Talk about a piece of crap. I could keep up with him on my Honda XR75.
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Old 06-27-2006, 04:03 PM   #37
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Default Re: XB9R or Z1000 ?

My decision just got simpler and harder at the same time. The local dealer sold the 03 Z this morning. He is working a price for me on the buell with my trade-in which he has not seen yet. While in the showroom I sat on the 650R,SVS650, and a busa! So unless they give me a too good to be true deal on the buell, I'll probably just save up and get what I truly want when I know whatever it is.
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Old 06-27-2006, 04:45 PM   #38
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Default Re: XB9R or Z1000 ?

Get a Speed Triple and have it all.
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Old 06-27-2006, 05:05 PM   #39
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Default Re: XB9R or Z1000 ?

No offense, but I'm tired of people citing the Hurt report. When was that thing written? 1979... 1980? We need a newer study. That is just old information. Show me a newer study, within the past ten years. If there isn't one, then someone should be doing one.
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Old 06-27-2006, 06:01 PM   #40
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Default Re: XB9R or Z1000 ?

I owned a 2003 Z1000 for almost one year and took a Lightning XB12S for a test ride late last summer. Here are my opinions on the two bikes:



My Z1000 was bone stock. It lacked the kind of torque I like (hence my love for the SV1000) and I really had to rev it past about 6,000 rpm to get it to go rapidly. But it did go very rapidly once it got into the powerband. After I bought it, I got a nasty speeding ticket which was discussed on this site last year.



The Z is actually a very sedate ride in most traffic situations and it's a very smooth running bike but does get buzzy when the tach gets into the powerband. The mirrors were pretty useless after about 80 mph in top gear.



Save for the stock seat (which eventually broke in significantly) I liked the Z1000 better than my naked SV1000 for long distance riding. The ergos were nearly perfect for me in this regard.



I consistently got between 30 and 40 mpg and I never had any mechanical problems with the Z either. I do my own maintenance on my bikes and on the Z, the oil is easy to change but the rear wheel was kind of a bugger to take off. I was getting ready to sych. the throttle bodies but before I got around to it, I traded it in on another SV1000 I happened to come across a couple of months ago (a new black '05 YEEHAA!).



Now more on the Buell Lightning XB12S. I love the looks of this bike. It sounds awesome too and I can only imagine how much better it would sound with an aftermarket pipe.



Ride-wise, it was okay. Not as comfortable as my Z1000 was IMHO but okay. The engine was very torquey but ran out of steam quickly as you got to about 6,000 rpm if I remember correctly. Now as I've said, I love torque, but the Buell is a bit too singularly focused in this regard. And the transmission on the new '04 bike I test rode was very clunky with long throws; I definitely didn't like that.



Straight-line acceleration with the Buell will be disapointing compared to the Z1000 but straight-line performance is not what these bikes are about. I think the Z handles great (so does the Buell) but I am not a knee dragger so handling characteristics at the limit was not as important for me in my decision to buy.



The Buell will definitely get better gas mileage than the Z1000 so that may be an big factor as gas approaches $3.00 per gallon and probably stays that way.



Reliability on the new Buells are as yet unproven and they are overpriced IMHO. The Z1000 on the other hand, is a reliable Japanese motorcycle and can be had for a great price. It is definitely a bike that you either love or hate but regardless of what you think about it, the Z1000 is a rare bike and a head-turner. I always got lots of positive questions and comments about it wherever I went.



Well, sorry for the long ramble. I hope my opinions have helped in some small way for you to make a more informed decision. The only other thing I'd suggest is to spend some time on the Z1000 forum at http://www.riderforums.com/ and the Buell Lightning forum and look around and ask questions. Good luck man!
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