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Old 02-09-2001, 07:54 AM   #81
cbrxr
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Default Re: An example of "freedom"-from-helmet groups

Aaron,

You're making the mistake here to ass-u-me that everyone who thinks that wearing a helmet should be an individual's choice is a member of some kind of organization such as the one you quote. Actually, nothing could be further from the truth. The whole point we are all trying to make is that we, as individuals, with minds of our own to think with, have come to the conclusion that freedom is the ability to decide for ourselves what we will and will not do, as long as it does not unduly harm anyone else. No one is saying that it is smart to ride without a helmet, that is not the point. The point is freedom is allowing us to use our minds for ourselves. Obviously you are putting effort into finding sources to back you up, while I came to this conclusion of personal responsibility on my own. You can quote ME on that.
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Old 02-09-2001, 07:56 AM   #82
Shaft
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Default Re: Helmet Law Repeal Stats

Right on!!! LOL!!!
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Old 02-09-2001, 08:04 AM   #83
ZRXRy
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Default Re: Insurance companies love people like you

To be exact, is it totally unreasonable for people who participate in risky sports to pay higher premiums for health insurance? I mean, that is a general rule - the greater the risk, the greater the premium. It would make more sense to require riders to be insured against injury, however, in my opinion.
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Old 02-09-2001, 08:05 AM   #84
cbrxr
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Default Re: Helmet Law Repeal Stats

You make the mistake of mixing two separate issues. If someone doesn't have medical insurance and requires medical care, then that is a problem. But what if that person fell off a horse, or their lawnmower exploded? Should we require helmet use for horse riding and mowing the lawn? Let's keep the insurance problems and the freedom problem separated issues, as they are.
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Old 02-09-2001, 08:07 AM   #85
Abe_Froman
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Default You heartless conservative!

You're absolutely right. I could have written your post myself, right up to your last comment. Even this heartless conservative wouldn't refuse medical treatment for the uninsured, whether it was their fault or not; I can, however, understand your frustration and willingness to resort to such an arrangement. In my case, I may not support the policy of allowing people to die in the streets, but I want them to THINK that they will. Maybe then they will take responsibility for themselves.
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Old 02-09-2001, 08:07 AM   #86
RUFRYDR
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Default Re: Helmet Law Repeal Stats

Let me start by letting you know I live in Little Rock, Arkansas and I also lost a friend of mine, a long time riding buddy to a fatal motorcycle accident this past year. He was wearing his helmet when a full size truck turned left in front of him sending him some 45 feet in the air and landing 65 feet down the road from the accident site. His neck was broke,and no helmet is going to prevent that. He was a long time believer that we should have the choice to wear,or not to wear a helmet. I believe as he did, that in certain situations of travel that we should have the choice to remove the helmet. Such as in Daytona Beach, Florida at Bike Week witch I have attended the last 3 years,

when cruising down main street at 5 mph, 85 degrees, and 220 degrees of nut boiling machinery between your legs that you should be able to remove your helmet if you want. Plus I would like to add that I would not be returning to Bike Week if they had not removed the helmet law, thus I get to enjoy Bike Week for years to come. The percentages may have changed but I believe that if they had looked at the number of bikes registered in those states they would have seen substantul growth there also. Seeing that my riding group has rose from under 50 members in 98 to over 150 members at the end of 99, to just under 200 at the end of 2000. The insurance side has to be thought through because I believe that any rider would invest in a $100.00 helmet to show his agent to receive a lower premium. Thus, how do you know he wears it after he leaves the agents office and what to do if the accident report says you we're not wearing a helmet - does this leave the insurance company the option of denying your claim because you did not abid by the conditions of the policy witch we're you ware a helmet all the time thus the lower premium that was giving to you.
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Old 02-09-2001, 08:07 AM   #87
ZRXRy
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Default Re: Helmet Law Repeal Stats

Yeah, but you can't fall off your car at low speeds and hit your head, seriously injuring yourself. Seatbelts laws are more comparable, and they have them. The other sports you mention don't generally occur on public roads, and so aren't under government regulation.
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Old 02-09-2001, 08:16 AM   #88
dirtybmxr
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Default Re: GRRRRR....

Hello? I DID read the original post. The fact that you can not differentiate between specific examples, and an underlying point, does not mean that my comprehension skills need work. I understand his point and yours.



My point was that while his reason for helmet laws may have been "selfish" or even flat out wrong, it just doesn't matter if you go and get killed over something as dumb as not wearing a helmet. I don't buy the shooting analogy either, because while auto accidents are an inescapable real possibility for everyone every day, relatively few people get shot. I also don't think his post meant that he wanted to hit you, but that in the event that you do get hit, it would be better for everyone if you had a lid on your noggin.



ps - I wear better gear than you (I'm not trying to start a pissing contest, congrats on your gear) . . . but when I used to ride on the street daily I also used to wear similar protection that you do now.



Whatever, maybe we are getting off topic. I understand what you're saying. As a matter of fact I also do not like that helmet laws, seat belt laws, warning labels on everything we buy, etc. have to exist. But since people prove themselves to be unable to act responsibly (prpoer insurance, common sense care) without coercion from the government, this debate will always be with us.
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Old 02-09-2001, 08:28 AM   #89
Abe_Froman
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Default As a former BMXer...

And sometime current trail rider, I will say that dirt riding is one area that the helmet-nazi mentality has not made inroads. The majority of trail riders (if you watch the x-games, you know what type of dirt "trails" I'm talking about) still don't wear helmets. Of course, falling on the dirt, even from high in the air, is much safer than crashing your motorcycle on the street, so the two can't be compared. Only idiot plush-bottom Audi-driving late-twenties morons with a $2000 dollar mountain bike and not enough skill to ride it out of their driveway wear helmets (I guess that's probably a good reason, though.)
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Old 02-09-2001, 08:28 AM   #90
bigfred
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Default Re: Helmet Law Repeal Stats

That's great if you wear you helmet because you have to. Where I live, I wear mine because I want to. If the only reason you wear your helmet is because it's law, well that's your problem. You should have sent a letter to your legislators telling them about all the other stuff you can't think of doing without a law to tell you.
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