Race Schools: Keith Code or Freddie Spencer?

[blitz]

Buy a dirt bike. You'll learn way more about motorcycle dynamics, and you can hone your

skills more often.



All the fast guys started in the dirt: Roberts, Spencer, the Hayden boys, the Bostrom brothers. That's where they learned it.

[sportbikebandit]

Thanks for the info. I have Freddie's school tenatively planned for February. But work might inteferee with that. Busy time for me. I agree having the school in Vegas is awesome. Good point about the class saving a trip to emergency room...

[sportbikebandit]

Since you are trying to sell your MV I assume you have given up on the short board.

[uberhawk]

IÂ’ve taken both the CSS and Spencer Schools. Did Level 1 and Level 2 about a year before the Spencer School. I think they complement each other, and didnÂ’t get a sense of having to "unlearn" anything.



I did get the sense that for the CSS courses were more foundational, and that the Spencer school was more advanced techniques. I would have been lost going into the Spencer school without the CSS courses under my belt, as were many of my classmates.



KeithÂ’s courses are basics. I mean come on, on the street you probably should be geting your braking done while straight up...if youÂ’re trail braking down to the apex youÂ’re not leaving much margin for that German Shepherd to jump out at you.



I think youÂ’ll throughly enjoy the Spencer school, and appreciate the foundation that CSS has laid down for you to better understand the advanced techniques youÂ’ll be exposed to.

[jfgilbert]

I attended CSS, all levels, some twice, so I must have liked it. I also took Spencer's three day school and will certainly go back when I have a chance. They are different, but not contradictory. They both emphasize smoothness and control, even if they take different routes to it. As others said, CSS is more about the fundamentals while Spencer is more about going fast. In that sense, they are complimentary.

A lot depends on how you get on with your instructor, so do not hesitate to ask to change is the chemistry is not right. Nick is awesome, it is true, but Cobie Fair is pretty impressive too, even if he did not publish any books. If you get a chance to work with either you'll get more than your money's worth.

On the subject of money, both are businesses and need to cover their costs. If you count the track rental, the EMTs, the bikes and tires, the instructors, and the insurance, you will see that neither could operate profitably without sponsorships from manufacturers, so their margins must be pretty thin.

At CSS, I had a friend who crashed after being bumped by another rider. It was not her fault, so they waved the $500 deductible on the bike and they gave her a brand new helmet just to make sure she would not be tempted to use the one that had taken a hit. That was cool and did not look to me that it was just about the $$, but perhaps we were just lucky.

It is good that you have done CSS first, so you are familiar with the format and riding on a track. Spencer will build up on what you have learnt and is well worth the cost, imho.

[The_Aerodynamic_Head]

Boy, if I had a nickel for every time I've heard this...

It's not that I doubt the veracity or conviction of the statement, I simply doubt that it applies universally.



What if you were a hobby-level aviator, seeking to improve your skills? How would you likely react if someone suggested that you should learn to fly a sea-plane like the old PBY Catalina, because it will teach you how to control a land-based plane that is sliding on its belly? Indeed, you would be right to believe instead that training heavily to avoid such situations is constituent of greater skill than managing them. Further, you would be right to suspect madness in one who suggested such.



I hear two things consistently from the crowd that advocates dirt-riding as the panacea approach for all riders everywhere. First, dirt riding teaches you how to control a slide. Fair enough. And for the top racers, who slide a lot, that's a good thing to know. But on the street, I might rather seek to *avoid* the slide in the bulk of my training. Second, I have heard a lot of emphasis on development of balance as a fruit of dirt-riding. Again, this seems reasonable. But enough time in a parking lot doing figure eights, on your own bike, especially with motor-cop friends watching/coaching will do the same thing.



I understand that this may not apply to many of you, but a great deal of why I ride a bike has to do with economics. It's vastly cheaper than a car. On those occasions when I want to go drinking, or dress up for the symphony, or get a bunch of luggage to/from the airport, I hire a taxi. In the aggregate, this is still vastly cheaper than owning a car. Buying a dirt-bike is not reasonalbe for me, or for many riders. And consider, too, the fact that owning a dirt-bike in turn necessitates means of transporting it to/from the trail, usually some sort of truck, itself more expensive to operate than most cars.



Finally, it's dirty, and nasty, and friggin' disgusting.

And that's just gross.

[PMax]

I also have attended Keith Codes school at Laguna Seca. I thought it was a great school. I first had attended Jason Pridmore's school at Spring Mountain (Pahrump Nevada) twice. I learned something new both times. I would take both classes again. I have never taken the Freddie Spencer school but the folks I have talked to, that have taken it, were of the opinion that it was too expensive for the results. It is more designed for celeb rider such as MJ. I have also read both of Keith Codes books which supplement his class. I think CC does a great job on the theory of turning.

Paul

[uberhawk]

I'll respectfully disagree. This person not only thinks Spencer's class is worth the money, but I'd gladly do it again.



You get almost individual instruction versus the rigid class format of CSS. That alone is worth it, I felt like I was almost one on one all day with almost constant feedback about my performance.



You're "designed for a celeb" is based on what? Most celebs, and casual riders would be lost at Fast Freddie's. The real problem folks might have is it's really intended for someone with a pretty high skill set looking to take it higher. Proper trail braking down to the apex is not for the faint of heart, or slight of skill. I did see people that I'd qualify as "average riders" (no track days, no road race experience) kind of struggle with the curriculum. To the instructors credit, those people kinda get put on a beginner track. Again, easy to do with the almost one on one attention you get.



A lot of those people confused trail braking with trailing brake. If you don't know the difference, you shouldn't be criticizing Freddie's course. Especially if your opinion is based on secondhand info from folks of unknown riding abiliity and questionable judgement. I'd like to know how you can devine the intent of the curriculum without having seen it?



Some people hate CSS, but most of those are actually in disagreement with the rigid classroom environment. Woe be unto the person who tries to disagree with Keith, you'll get you ass handed to you quicker than a heckler at a Dennis Leary show. Doesn't mean the course isn't any good for anyone else.