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Old 10-21-2003, 07:51 PM   #41
mgrsys
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Default Re: To Cover or Not To Cover?

Been riding 35 years and always cover (two fingers) when riding in urban areas.



Personally, I think it is safer for newbies also, since it will help them to always be aware of the location and position of the lever, making them less likely to jam on the rear brake, or grab too much front brake in the ensuing panic.
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Old 10-21-2003, 08:05 PM   #42
veepster
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Default Re: To Cover or Not To Cover?

I agree completely. When I authored the article I should have stated that I've been covering for more than a decade, and had to concentrate very hard not to during the course 'cause I got tired of hearing about it from the instructor.



Thanks for posting,



Ride safe...veepster
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Old 10-21-2003, 09:00 PM   #43
veepster
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Default Re: Thank You

Hello Jack,

A very well written response, Thank You.



The posts I've read after authoring this article are in line with my expectations, especially regarding some instructors who wrote that they have a "party line" they need to tow.



I also got the 90/10 line during the course, and I'm with you on this one also. Repetition of any skill will define how you react when the $hit hits the fan. Just ask any police officer about their training.



Both of the books that you mentioned are great reads. They are part of my library among others. Track school is in the plans, too.



Personally, I've used a 2 finger cover for over a decade with obviously good results...I'm able to answer your post.



Some might think this ridiculous, but I take my riding as seriously as I would flying an airplane. I make every attempt to maintain a high level of "professionalism" when riding, not only for the level of satisfaction it provides, but also to do my part to enhance the image of our beloved pastime. (hopefully it will matter to someone besides me)



Ride safe...veepster



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Old 10-21-2003, 10:24 PM   #44
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Default Re: why I don't cover any more

If someone comes careening out of a driveway in front of you, or blows through a stop sign, or suddenly turns left after apparently staring right at you, it will be sudden, no matter how much attention you're paying.



And if you can't apply maximum pressure with two fingers then go to the gym or buy a new bike, because you're either a feeb or the brakes on your current bike suck.



PS. your spelling is egregious.

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Old 10-22-2003, 05:21 AM   #45
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Default Re: To Cover or Not To Cover?

I do remember some tests in Car and Driver where they showed the stopping distances of some cars like the Porsche 911 ($170,000 variant) that had 100-0 stopping distances that were motorcycle distances. But generally the best sedans (some of the BMWs) have about the same stopping distance as the worst motorcycles for stopping, like the Goldwing.



But generally in a panic stop in traffic the worry is about some car running up yer @$$. That's why I stay in the far left or right lane on the freeway... so swing onto the shoulder if I have to. I haven't seen too many Lamborghinis lately.
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Old 10-22-2003, 05:25 AM   #46
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Default Re: To Cover or Not To Cover?

what you fail to realize in the rant over 90/10 is that while during the execution phase (search, evaluate, execute) there is a very large physical effort involved, the wholistic task of "riding a motorcycle" is still mostly mental. Search is probably 75%, evaluate is 15 and the rest is execution. People in accidents check out and don't properly or adequately do the first part.



as an instructor I would also expect you to have understood that we're in the business of teaching a skill to those who have little or no experience. Simple rules for simple people. This is the same no matter what life skill we're talking about. If a ex-student 10k miles down the line wants to bend some of those "rules" then by all means. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater though.



One could make the argument (since you said "many times") that these hypothetical people have poor braking distance judgement. Granted most of us probably fall into that category but locking up a wheel is prima facie evidence of improper execution. No matter what the rider's skill level if they spend most of their brain cycles on SEARCH, they won't need to depend so heavily on perfection with regard to Execute. That's why it's 90% mental.
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Old 10-22-2003, 05:57 AM   #47
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Default Re: To Cover or Not To Cover?

1. "If I'm scanning/percieving/reacting correctly, then I'll have enough reaction time."



That is just nonsense. It sounds good but it is not the real world. And, even if it WERE true, its implication is that if you should NOT need to cover the lever... but if you DO - then you DESERVE to crash.



2. "The viscosity of my brake fluid... blah, blah, blah..."



LOL! Man that's really reaching. My lever is also adjusted to leave room for my other two fingers underneath.



3. "My having to reach... with all 4 fingers will... provide me... a little extra time before braking to get an assessment of the situation."



This is like saying you should go into a gunfight with your hand off your pistol and the pistol snapped into the holster. That way - when the other guy draws - you'll have "... a little extra time... to get an assessment of the situation." EXCUSE ME! I have already assessed the situation and am doing solutions now! I need application time not more assessment time.



".... would I drive a car with my toes on the gas and heel on the brake..."



Sure, if I could so it as well as I could covering the brake lever on a bike. If cars had the same controls as bikes, I would for sure.



5. "Not covering will teach me better throttle control habits."



And hitting yourself with a hammer makes you tougher. That's immaterial if the throttle control habits you need include covering the brake. Training with the lever covered teaches me throttle control with my fingers on the lever.



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Old 10-22-2003, 07:04 AM   #48
obandoj
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Default Re: To Cover or Not To Cover?

Trail braking and covering the brake lever in traffic are two completely different things KPaul, take a racing school, it sounds like you need it, along with some track days.
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Old 10-22-2003, 07:05 AM   #49
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Default Re: To Cover or Not To Cover?

Point taken Thanks
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Old 10-22-2003, 07:06 AM   #50
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Default Re: To Cover or Not To Cover?

Amen, Steve.
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