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Old 05-19-2003, 08:27 AM   #1
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Default Bargan based on "Out the Door" price

Out the door price, including sales taxes, DMV fees, and dealer nuisance charges ("freight": let's double what the manufacturer charged us to receive the bike, "prep": let's charge $500 for 1 hour of shop-time, "doc": let's charge $50 for going to the special DMV line with 20 other forms) is the best way to bargan.

This way, you can bargan for the real cost, and avoid a lot of potentially deceptive crap concerning last-minute nuisance charges. Let the dealer brake those down however he likes, whatever he likes (bumwiping fees if needbe), as you no longer care.

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Old 05-19-2003, 08:57 AM   #2
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Default Re: Set-up and Dock fees?

It's been my experiance that dealers, auto and bike, aren't really going to budge on freight and set-up. The best thing to do is as previously posted, work on an OTD price. Also try to work up a trade-in price, or a discount on factory accessories installed at the time of sale. That other stuff is just a cost of buisness they're going to pass on to you.
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Old 05-19-2003, 09:36 AM   #3
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Default Re: Set-up and Dock fees?

Some bike dealers will reduce these charges, especially if you can find out what they are actually charged for freight. As far as set-up, sometimes "assuming" 2 hours of shop time and then multiplying that by their regular hourly shop rate will work.

As you mentioned, negotiating an OTD price is the best way to go in most cases, but if you have a salesman insisting on setting a price and then tagging on this other stuff as a "profict center" you can have some fun w/ this aproach.

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Old 05-19-2003, 10:14 AM   #4
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Default Re: Set-up and Dock fees?

I'm baffled why so many people turn buying a motorcycle into an emotional personal attack on a dealership for "gouging me" and "screwing me" out of my money...."those s*****-sucking stealerships!" I got news for ya...you only get gouged or screwed if you allow it to happen. Make an effort to learn how to negotiate and become an informed buyer and eliminate the emotion from the process. People get emotional because they don't know how else to respond to a given situation intelligently and logically. Don't worry about all of the confusing charges and fees the dealerships try and tack on. Worry only about what your offer will be to them, OUT THE DOOR. That way, you control the buying process and they can take it or leave it.

I've purchased several bikes at quality dealerships by negotiating the best price for both me and the dealership. That means we both win.
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Old 05-19-2003, 10:33 AM   #5
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Default Re: Set-up and Doc fees?

I completely disagree that there is nothing you can do about it other than negotiate a lower overall price. The best thing you can do is buy one out of state. I've done this several times and had great luck. Especially if they are off road bikes because you won't have to pay tax either.

I actually took the figure to my local dealers on several bikes to give them a chance to match the price. No deal, they're too damned stupid to realize they are losing a sale on not only the bike but parts and service as well. When they try to screw you on price, they'll do the same on everything else.

My local KTM shop just tried screwing my buddy on a brand new KTM 450EXC. We called around and got it delivered to his door for $1000 (14.3%) less for just a couple of phone calls.

Here in Colorado, they try gouging you on the "Fees" in every dealership I've been to and it's Bull$hit. Don't pay them, get the bike somewhere else.
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Old 05-19-2003, 10:47 AM   #6
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Default Re: Set-up and Doc fees?

When I bought my new bike, there was never a mention of any kind of freight or set-up fees, just MSRP and doc fee - and when I asked the salesperson if she could knock off the $70 since I was paying full MSRP and hadn't tried to negotiate anything else, off they came. She did it by lowering the price and still showing the fees, but I was still out the door for MSRP.

Did I go back for parts and accessories? You bet! Will I in the future? Damn straight!

Of course, they may be doing this because there are two other dealerships for the same brand within a 20-mile radius, but as far as I'm concerned, they treated me right, so I'm a customer until that changes.
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Old 05-19-2003, 10:49 AM   #7
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Default Re: Set-up and Doc fees?

Freight is a "real" fee that the dealer has to absorb. If a doc fee is charged to one customer, it has to be charged to all of them. I learned this from setting on a board of directors of a bank. I don't recall what law it's based on, but the dealer is very exposed to legal actions as well as govt. intervention if it isn't charged universally. I used to walk away from deals over a doc fee. Now, I simply tell the dealer to reduce the price of the bike relative to the amount of the fee. If he refuses, I walk on down the road. It's a profit center and nothing more!

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Old 05-19-2003, 12:28 PM   #8
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Default Re: Set-up and Dock fees?

I agree. My bike was not the absolute cheapest it could have been, but it was carefully negotiated as an out the door price and a number of items were tacked on late in the negotiation at cost price. (Parriers, helmet etc etc) The price was a good one, yet allowed the dealership to make money.

For that the dealership were patient and informative and a place I still drop in when I'm passing.
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Old 05-19-2003, 12:38 PM   #9
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Default Not In Texas

This trick doesn't work in some states. In Texas if you try to register a vehicle purchased in another state and it was purchased fairly recently (2 years I think), then our Great State charges you sales tax on the purchase price of the vehicle. Pay the tax or don't register the vehicle. This even if you paid sales tax on the vehicle in another state. Texas has a slew of these law. They are known as Dealer Protection Laws. These laws are also the reason you cannot purchase a vehicle over the internet if you live in Texas. You may need to research this before you try to bring in an out-of-state vehicle. And of course all you people subject to california emissions are equally screwed.
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Old 05-19-2003, 02:11 PM   #10
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Default Re: Set-up and Doc fees?

I bought my '01 SVS from a huge dealership in Chicago. I live near KC Missouri and had to drive a 20 hour round trip to get the bike. When I got there I was tired and just wanted to get the thing and get out. Those little b@stards charged me 250 freaking dollars in prep charges on USED BIKE! I honestly didn't know what I was doing, mixing with those slimy city folks, but man was I hot after I realized I got charged for a 250 oil change and brake check that never happened! I called the owner of the place the next day and told him as politely as I could that the oil and filter change had somehow been overlooked, and he proceded to insult my intelligence and integrity. I ended up hanging up on him before I said something inappropriate.

Dealers ARE in business to make money, but you sure can tell the difference between the ones that regard you as somebody who's got bills to pay and the ones who see you only as an opportunity to rape you.

Personally, I wouldn't trust any of the dealers I've been to to put air in my tires.

They're not ALL bad though. Wait a sec, yeah they are!
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