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Old 12-25-2001, 08:57 PM   #61
TheFox
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Default OK, you REALLY missed the point.

When I used average as an adjective, I was referring to those of us in the middle class. You know, the "Average Joe"? Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.



And I'm not flaming Harley...I like a couple of thier bikes, namely the Night Train and the Road King Classic. I would buy a Night Train if it had the power to back up the look. I just personally think they are overpriced for what you get...which is why I ride something else. Capitalism is nice.



And gas here in Illinois sucks. I blame the damned corn farmers. $2.00 a gallon was outrageous...I was glad I had a bike, and there were a lot of stories on the news about how people were seeing a lot more bikes on the road, due to gas prices being higher...but the main focus was that we had something like double the motorycle related fatalities this year. You can't get into an MSF course in Chicagoland without signing up in the first 2 days online, and I know no one who was able to pass the Illinois on bike exam on anything larger than a 250. The result? Many ride without a liscense. Many police here don't even ticket for it anymore - it's too much paperwork.



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Old 12-26-2001, 04:02 AM   #62
longride
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Default Re: Harley Davidson is Company of the Year

Harley has probably been the only profitable motorcycle company since the 80's. I would wager all the Japanese companies have been losing money all along. Honda, Kaw, Yam, and Suz all have other interests that propped up the motorcycle industry for years. I would love to see the "true" profitablility of their motorcycle divisions. Anyway, Harley has led the way since the early 80's with many smart moves. HOG and full value Sportster trade-ins for bigger bikes allowed people to get in the door cheap AND be social at the same time. Motorcyclists are social. We ride in groups mostly. HOG was the first to capitalize on that idea, and I believe was a springboard to success. Japanese Mfgs. relied on the same outdated motives since 1970.-"Make em 3mph faster and 5lbs. lighter every year and the buyers will think it's brand new". Harley dropping the racing program is another smart move, as they made nothing comparable in the showroom. Motorcycles are a business to Harley and a writeoff to the Japanese. Since I own a Honda GoldWing, Kaw ZX9R, and a Harley FLHTCI presently, I can appreciate each for it's own merits. Ride what ya like and who cares what anyone else thinks anyway.
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Old 12-26-2001, 04:11 AM   #63
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Default Re: Harley Davidson is Company of the Year

Japanese bikes become disposable for 2 reasons.

1. Cannot find new parts anymore or possibly ANY parts.

2. Becomes cheaper to buy something else rather than fix it.

There are new parts for every Harley out there since the 36 Knuckle. And if you fix up the Knuck it's worth tons of money when you are done. Now rebuild that 73 Honda 750 inside out and it's still worth $1000.00 when you are done so why bother rebuilding? My next project is a 76 FX Superglide that is pretty much stock. Just needs some TLC and no special tools for complete overhaul and it's instantly worth 10,000.00. Worth rebuilding?? You betcha!
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Old 12-26-2001, 06:05 AM   #64
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Default Sure you can compare HD and Aprilia...

Both are going to break. One will have places to fix it in the same state.
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Old 12-26-2001, 07:22 AM   #65
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Default Re: Bravo!,...Harley Davidson is #1

I couldn't have said it better. I have owned quite a few bikes, love sport bikes as well but my Harley is what I keep. It makes me happy. By the way, I'm not a sucker, I wear what I want, do what I want, ride what I want and as far as the price of a Harley, value of anything isn't just measured in Technology.
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Old 12-26-2001, 08:28 AM   #66
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Default Re: OK, you REALLY missed the point.

Keep in mind there are "middle class" people who would be highly irresponsible if they bought ANY motorcycle, for a variety of reasons. AND then there are "middle class" people in other situations who can afford Harleys and/or other premium marques without neglecting any obligations to family or elsewhere. If you're not neglecting something of higher priority it's impossible to be fiscally irresponsible even if judgemental types out there may not approve of how you spend your money.



I don't currently own a Harley but have bought four new ones in the past and paid cash for all of them because I know how to save (got back most or all of the purchase price when I got rid of them too). Now, I'm pretty sure only lower-class people would ever consider an income like mine upper-class, thus it's safe to say I'm middle-class. So please explain how I am "irresponsible" for buying Harleys.
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Old 12-26-2001, 11:46 AM   #67
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Default OK, you missed the point too. This is getting old.

Obviously you are fiscally responsible. However, I stand by my statement that the AVERAGE...the AVERAGE FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE person cannot afford to purchace a Harley.



Does this mean ALL fiscally responsible people cannot afford to buy a Harley? No.



Does this mean NO fiscally responsible people cannot afford to buy a Harley? No.



This means the AVERAGE fiscally responsible person cannot afford to buy a Harley? IN MY OPINION yes. You said it yourself, I will cut and paste it and put it in quotations:



'Keep in mind there are "middle class" people who would be highly irresponsible if they bought ANY motorcycle, for a variety of reasons. AND then there are "middle class" people in other situations who can afford Harleys and/or other premium marques without neglecting any obligations to family or elsewhere. If you're not neglecting something of higher priority it's impossible to be fiscally irresponsible even if judgemental types out there may not approve of how you spend your money.'



You have just echoed what I have been saying, albeit in a different way. Keep in mind however, I feel that most people, regardless of rider or non-rider status, are fiscally irresponsible in terms of living outside their means. I don't really feel like hashing out the definition of what I think a fiscally responsible person is. It's different for everyone. I stand by my original statement.



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Old 12-26-2001, 11:58 AM   #68
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Default Re: Harley Davidson is Company of the Year

Come visit us in beautiful northeast Tennessee, right in the smokies and brimming with 100k decent houses.
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Old 12-26-2001, 12:05 PM   #69
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Default Re: Harley Davidson is Company of the Year

ZipperGuy wrote:



>



I'd rather sell my house than sell my Harleys



Rayvan



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Old 12-26-2001, 04:03 PM   #70
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Default Re: Harley math

"I do think that this (owning, but not riding an expensive bike) is primarily a HD phenomenon. I really don't know anyone with a $15k BMW or wing or aprilia that doesn't ride it."



I'll wager that a good number of those who bought an MH900e when Ducati sold them online use it as a show-piece as opposed to a daily ride. Same with Fogarty-edition Monsters. Heck, if Foggy (or Katja Poensgen) signed my gas tank, I'd baby the bike too.
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