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Old 07-19-2001, 07:06 AM   #51
Gabe
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Default Good Point!

And the reason H-D can make a very expensive bike with such a cheap sticker.
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Old 07-19-2001, 07:14 AM   #52
Abe_Froman
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Default True,

This probably says a lot more about the American people than it does about the people behind Harley-Davidson. Hey, lots of people voted for Gore too. It is clear that there are a lot of idiots living in the United States. You have to look at Harley's current race effort if you want evidence of the magnitude of their ineptness.
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Old 07-19-2001, 07:15 AM   #53
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Default Re: Dyno Chart, V-Rod Style

There's that same theme again, "bring the price down", I just don't think it will happen. The high price is some of what makes it (seem) exclusive. (Although I see many people riding Harleys that don't look like they otherwise have enough money for a cup of coffee.) If it cost less it wouldn't be nearly as exclusive, and people would stop buying them. Or everybody would buy them, either way it ruins the whole exclusivity thing.



I'm not saying I disagree, I just don't see the perceived value in style and name brand. I ride a CBR600F4, and many people think it has bland styling. I disagree, and I love the bike. I wouldn't pay another 25-50-100% just for a bike that has character, like a Ducati, wiht similar performance. Besides most of those bikes that have character, also require more maintenance, or more cost more when the maintenance is done. I have a bike to ride it, not to show my status in life. But that's some people's idea of motorcycling.
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Old 07-19-2001, 07:24 AM   #54
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Default Re: Oh, We

"Oh, We're an Expert in Moto-Economics, Are We?"



Please keep your smart ass comments to your self. Just like everybody else here, it is just my opinion.



Fast food??? I don't remember saying anything about eating fast food. By the way I don't, for health reasons mainly, but also for the points you made.



I understand your point with the $200 million dollar thing, but even $200 million dollars out of BMW pockets is not much. It's all relative. Besides you said it yourself, nobody knows how much it cost to engineer.



What makes a modern, liquid-cooled motorcycle so chaep to make? Depends. They got Porsche to do it for them. As I recall Porsche did something similiar recently. Went from air to liquid cooling. Harley would have definitely benefited from their research and experience. This would more than likely help reduce the cost of R&D.



As for the Hyundai, yes that is exactly what I am saying. The air bags (driver and passenger) alone are probably worth the front end of the V-Rod.

You said it yourself, all the extra steel, and lets not forget the cardboard



As for the limited run; I doubt it. Maybe for the V-Rod, or maybe just for the silver V-Rod. A brand new engine for 11,00 units? I don't think so. The V-Rods future value will be in its historical significance to Harley.



This is the beginning of the end of the air cooled V-twin.



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Old 07-19-2001, 07:27 AM   #55
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Default Re: Dyno Chart, V-Rod Style

Was the 107 HP measured at the crank or the rear wheel?
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Old 07-19-2001, 07:27 AM   #56
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Default Yeah, well, anyway.....

When I buy a cruiser, I want the biggest badass cruiser I can get. Therefore, I will buy the VTX. Honda has out-Harleyed Harley with that bike. This V-Rod thing might be a neat little effort for them, like when I par a hole at Valley View down in Belle Plain. Hey, cool. Phil Mickelson, however, is laying down birdie after birdie in major PGA tournaments. Didn't I also hear somewhere that torque was the most important thing on a cruiser? How much torque does the VTX make? Oh yeah, MUCH MORE.



As I have said before, Harley needs to offer obscene amounts of money to lure engineers away from Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki before I would consider buying one. Porche may make some neat cars, but it will take a hurculean effort to drag Harley-Davidson kicking and screaming in the 20th (let alone the 21st) century.
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Old 07-19-2001, 07:36 AM   #57
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Default Hmmm.....

If this is what $17,000 buys with Harley, think of what $17,000 would buy if it were a Honda Cruiser! It would probably be that show bike that the VTX is based on!!
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Old 07-19-2001, 07:47 AM   #58
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Default Bargain Bikes

I agree. Obviously, MO has to do new bikes for 95% of their stuff, cause that's what manufacturers sell. But I think an article or two on good used machines (how to find 'em, what to look for, what to avoid) would be useful for those of us who are on a budget.



I love the budget bike shootouts and hope you do a 2001 version (although frankly, there wasn't a lot of movement in this sector over the past year).



Also, MO kind of ignores readers who've never ridden before. Is there even a link to MSF on the site? What is the best first bike? Maybe this needs its own discussion. I read all these stories about people buying a 600 supersport as a first bike because they are inexpensive and have a "small" engine. Some kind of guidance for the newbies would be nice.
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Old 07-19-2001, 07:52 AM   #59
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Default Re: Sleepless nights

Oh, you mean like the 1800 Goldwing coming out so soon after the 1200(forget the letters) BMW? Oh, but it seems the Goldwing has already had two recalls. My buddy's is pushing its third week in the shop. You mean THAT type of reaction?
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Old 07-19-2001, 07:53 AM   #60
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Default Uh...

Knowing what you know now, would you have bought Harley or Honda stock in 1983?



Ineptitude is no predictor of failure.
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