Motorcycle.com

Janet · 07-19-2001, 02:02 AM

Hi Merv

Perhaps we should sell the house and buy more bikes ... no, wait, we'd never get insurance on our bikes if they were in a tent rather than a locked garage!

I'm sure the V-Rod will sell well here in the UK. Over here I think "Harley Davidson" is a badge thing. Top-spec Fords never sell as well over here as equivalent BMWs or Mercedes, even if they're much cheaper, because they just don't have the right badge to show off your good taste. The kind of peole to whom this matters will probably find the idea of a Harley badge but more modern performance standards particularly appealing. Plus they can go into their local pub and announce, loudly enough so everyone can (has to) hear "hey - I've got a V-Rod"!

Of course I wouldn't be swayed by this as I've clearly no idea of style at all. I've got a Cagiva Raptor instead of the Ducati Monster S4. it doesn't matter that the Raptor is the better bike - it still doesn't have the right Italian name on the tank!

Hmmmm...

Janet

Weston-super-Mare, UK

ACE1100rider · 07-19-2001, 02:27 AM

I LOVE my Buell......but Buells do not come close to these numbers without extensive and expensive modifications. My M2 was rated at 91 crank horsies stock, and after the breather/pipe/ignition/jet kit mods, I picked up an estimated 7-10 hp. But this is at the crank. You must account for a 15% loss for hp at the rear wheel. I am nowhere near 108 rwhp. To get close I'd need to re-do the entire engine.

The V-Rod makes this power bone stock!

PsychoBueller · 07-19-2001, 02:36 AM

The V-Rod is clearly a very impressive motorcycle and any fair-minded person would acknowledge this. It seems clear to me that you hate Harley-Davidson and will not give proper credit where it's due. Show us another cruiser with a V-TWIN engine that puts out similar power.

jmoore813 · 07-19-2001, 02:41 AM

Let's face it...this engine belongs in an X1. Theis one change would catapult Buell back into the naked bike wars now starting...RHP migh be down on a Fazer, but what about the power to weight ratio between the two? An X1 now weighs 440 dry (reportedly)...

A tasty proposition (for me, anyway). Only time will see.

mdpeterson · 07-19-2001, 02:44 AM

Buffalo: I disagree. The japs have a smaller margin on

their bikes, and make $$ by the economy of scale. IOW,

they sell *a lot* of bikes. (When you include scooters,

2strokes, and small machines...hell even generators and

lawnmower engines) Harley only has one product line...

Heavy cruiser motorcycles. Mark

LimeSqueezr · 07-19-2001, 02:49 AM

My apologies, I made that statement based on the published 115hp (H-D public numbers are crank hp not rear wheel) without reading the dyno chart closely. Assuming that this test bike provided is exactly like and typical of prod specimens, it somehow did NOT lose 15% of it's hp or it would be down below 100. Your 15% est. is not a "must" it's a "rule of thumb" because different drivetrains lose different amounts of power (even vehicles that are the "same" --due to manufacturing variances).

Some owners of EFI Buells (101 crank stock hp) *claim* to have gotten well over 110 or more with mainly exhaust, airbox etc. mods. I haven't seen the dyno data to prove it though.

BykerGeek · 07-19-2001, 03:04 AM

You can knock on H-D all you want but bottom line is that they are the master of supply/demand economics, their profit margins are legendary, their owners loyal and their stockholders happy. How many other MFGRs dealer's *can* sell over MSRP? This is a business remember.

PsychoBueller · 07-19-2001, 03:16 AM

ACE & Lime,

True, the 15% rule is a guide...not a rule. But ACE is right in the fact that even 98 rwhp (115hp-15%) is VERY impressive for a STOCK V-Twin cruiser. Perhaps the V-Rod that MO received mistakenly had the "Buell" version installed in it?????? Guess not!

I do wish that Buell had stuffed a tuned version of the V-Rod engine into the XB9R chassis. Maybe next year...H-D's 100th and Buell's 20th anniversaries.

bilbo · 07-19-2001, 03:22 AM

Honda's VTX has around the same HP and around 25% more torque!!

Face it, the only reason such a big deal is being made about this bike is because Harley made it, and it is pretty amazing that Harley actually made a competitive engine. Aside from the fact that Harley made it, there is nothing remarkable about this engine by today's standards.

The bike does look very nice though. But no way is it worth 50% to 75% more money than other similar bikes.

lightnin · 07-19-2001, 04:07 AM

And a Keith Black Big Block makes 1000+ of both, if you want to compare much bigger engines (the Honda being 1800cc vs. the Harley's 1130...

07-19-2001, 02:02 AM	#21
Janet Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 21	Wasteful things ... Hi Merv Perhaps we should sell the house and buy more bikes ... no, wait, we'd never get insurance on our bikes if they were in a tent rather than a locked garage! I'm sure the V-Rod will sell well here in the UK. Over here I think "Harley Davidson" is a badge thing. Top-spec Fords never sell as well over here as equivalent BMWs or Mercedes, even if they're much cheaper, because they just don't have the right badge to show off your good taste. The kind of peole to whom this matters will probably find the idea of a Harley badge but more modern performance standards particularly appealing. Plus they can go into their local pub and announce, loudly enough so everyone can (has to) hear "hey - I've got a V-Rod"! Of course I wouldn't be swayed by this as I've clearly no idea of style at all. I've got a Cagiva Raptor instead of the Ducati Monster S4. it doesn't matter that the Raptor is the better bike - it still doesn't have the right Italian name on the tank! Hmmmm... Janet Weston-super-Mare, UK

07-19-2001, 02:27 AM	#22
ACE1100rider Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 18	Re: Dyno Chart, V-Rod Style I LOVE my Buell......but Buells do not come close to these numbers without extensive and expensive modifications. My M2 was rated at 91 crank horsies stock, and after the breather/pipe/ignition/jet kit mods, I picked up an estimated 7-10 hp. But this is at the crank. You must account for a 15% loss for hp at the rear wheel. I am nowhere near 108 rwhp. To get close I'd need to re-do the entire engine. The V-Rod makes this power bone stock!

07-19-2001, 02:36 AM	#23
PsychoBueller Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DE, USA Posts: 106	Re: Because it is! The V-Rod is clearly a very impressive motorcycle and any fair-minded person would acknowledge this. It seems clear to me that you hate Harley-Davidson and will not give proper credit where it's due. Show us another cruiser with a V-TWIN engine that puts out similar power. __________________ PsychoBueller 2000 Buell Cyclone M2

07-19-2001, 02:41 AM	#24
jmoore813 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 21	Re: Dyno Chart, V-Rod Style Let's face it...this engine belongs in an X1. Theis one change would catapult Buell back into the naked bike wars now starting...RHP migh be down on a Fazer, but what about the power to weight ratio between the two? An X1 now weighs 440 dry (reportedly)... A tasty proposition (for me, anyway). Only time will see.

07-19-2001, 02:44 AM	#25
mdpeterson Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 10	Re: Sleepless nights Buffalo: I disagree. The japs have a smaller margin on their bikes, and make $$ by the economy of scale. IOW, they sell a lot of bikes. (When you include scooters, 2strokes, and small machines...hell even generators and lawnmower engines) Harley only has one product line... Heavy cruiser motorcycles. Mark

Sponsored Links	Remove Advertisements
Motorcycle Forum Advertisement

07-19-2001, 02:49 AM	#26
LimeSqueezr Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 193	It would seem you're right and you're wrong... My apologies, I made that statement based on the published 115hp (H-D public numbers are crank hp not rear wheel) without reading the dyno chart closely. Assuming that this test bike provided is exactly like and typical of prod specimens, it somehow did NOT lose 15% of it's hp or it would be down below 100. Your 15% est. is not a "must" it's a "rule of thumb" because different drivetrains lose different amounts of power (even vehicles that are the "same" --due to manufacturing variances). Some owners of EFI Buells (101 crank stock hp) claim to have gotten well over 110 or more with mainly exhaust, airbox etc. mods. I haven't seen the dyno data to prove it though.

07-19-2001, 03:04 AM	#27
BykerGeek Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 48	Re: Amazing!? Why? You can knock on H-D all you want but bottom line is that they are the master of supply/demand economics, their profit margins are legendary, their owners loyal and their stockholders happy. How many other MFGRs dealer's can sell over MSRP? This is a business remember.

07-19-2001, 03:16 AM	#28
PsychoBueller Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DE, USA Posts: 106	Re: It would seem you ACE & Lime, True, the 15% rule is a guide...not a rule. But ACE is right in the fact that even 98 rwhp (115hp-15%) is VERY impressive for a STOCK V-Twin cruiser. Perhaps the V-Rod that MO received mistakenly had the "Buell" version installed in it?????? Guess not! I do wish that Buell had stuffed a tuned version of the V-Rod engine into the XB9R chassis. Maybe next year...H-D's 100th and Buell's 20th anniversaries. __________________ PsychoBueller 2000 Buell Cyclone M2

07-19-2001, 03:22 AM	#29
bilbo Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 20	Re: Because it is! Honda's VTX has around the same HP and around 25% more torque!! Face it, the only reason such a big deal is being made about this bike is because Harley made it, and it is pretty amazing that Harley actually made a competitive engine. Aside from the fact that Harley made it, there is nothing remarkable about this engine by today's standards. The bike does look very nice though. But no way is it worth 50% to 75% more money than other similar bikes.

07-19-2001, 04:07 AM	#30
lightnin Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 7	Re: Because it is! And a Keith Black Big Block makes 1000+ of both, if you want to compare much bigger engines (the Honda being 1800cc vs. the Harley's 1130...