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Old 07-19-2001, 10:56 AM   #91
Abe_Froman
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Default P.S.

I have ridden both Harley (not the V-Rod) and VTX, and I can say definitively that if it weren't for this "buy American even if it's crap" sentiment and mid-life crisis faux-bad-boy people, Harley would be out of business in a week. There is no comparison. If God rode a cruiser, it would be the VTX.
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Old 07-19-2001, 11:00 AM   #92
Abe_Froman
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Default GASP!! IT'S A MIRACLE!!

Why would you ride your oh-so-comfortable Hog a few hours just to watch lots of other guys chase each other around a track in said "dog hunkered over taking a dump" position? Shoot, why do they do that, anyway? Superbikes should have highway pegs and ape hangers. Just because you're trying to go fast doesn't mean you need to be uncomfortable.
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Old 07-19-2001, 11:09 AM   #93
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Default Re: Wasteful things ...

I think no matter what you buy you will get good ones and bad ones. I just hope we get the good ones...



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Old 07-19-2001, 11:13 AM   #94
Abe_Froman
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Default That may (or may not) be true,

but the fact of the matter is that the Japanese actually know how to build a quality motorcycle. For all their spectacular profit margins, Harley Davidson builds motorcycles with the same technological advancement of a 1923 Massey-Ferguson tractor.
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Old 07-19-2001, 11:32 AM   #95
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Default Re: Amazing!? Why?

But that's still a lot lighter than the VTX which everyone is flipping out over, with more power. Judging by the frame design I'd put my money on it to handle better than the VTX, and of course the V-max. (Yes I see the huge rake, but steering can be muscled, chassis flex you're just stuck with)
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Old 07-19-2001, 11:38 AM   #96
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Default Actually

A four should outpower a twin by a LOT. A 1000cc twin should be compared to a 750cc four, and the four should still make a little more power. For a twin that's actually smaller than the four to make almost as much power, means you shouldn't even be comparing them. The ZRX-12 comes in a mild state of tune, they intended it that way. If they were really trying to make a lot of power with it, it'd be a failure--but if they had really tried it would smoke this twin. If you want to compare these two directly the twin kicks the ZRX's ass. It's just a matter of what they think people want, and/or what they decide to build. Suzuki could put a TL motor in an intruder, Kaw could put a ZX-12 motor in the ZRX--whatever. It's not a show of engineering ability, that's what racing's for.
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Old 07-19-2001, 11:42 AM   #97
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Default Pleeease...

they should be trying to hire engineers from Merch or S&S, not the people who copied them making the VTX. The only point of a Harley was you used to be able to stuff a Merch 120 or S&S 113 in it. And they make the VTX look like the production-wannabe toy it is.
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Old 07-19-2001, 11:45 AM   #98
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Default Re: Out-Harleying Harley

Would you honestly have felt better if I had said "simplistic"?



I agree the Sporty rider enjoys the cruiser style, but unless he (or she) bought the 883 they should be on a par acceleration-wise with a big twin...until the TC 88 came out, I'd have argued that the sportster engine was the most advanced plant HD manufactured.



But all of this is off-topic. I don't question that HD has brought to the table a potentially significant motorcycle; I'm just not sure who'll be the target market. I wouldn't expect import cruiser buyers to shop it with comparable, less expensive imports available. Likewise, I wouldn't expect the riders who want to just "putt" to pay for that technology. And I'm sure there'll be a small vocal faction screaming that real HD's are air cooled. I see a potential market in the top end custom V-twin shops (performance from the factory, with a warranty), but other than that only overseas sales makes any sense...
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Old 07-19-2001, 12:01 PM   #99
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Default Re: Dyno Chart, V-Rod Style

I like the new V-Rod, but financial considerations take it out of my realm of possibility. Anyway, I must get the most bang for my buck. For less than half the price ($7500), I can get a ZRX 1200 with similar HP and more torque across the range. I don't need the "badge" of approval received by buying a H-D.

We also have to be careful about what we call "American Made". If I recall correctly, H-Ds can't put on the "Made in the USA" sticker because of the percentage make-up of foreign parts. The front and rear suspension are Japanese. The carbs are Japanese (or, perhaps, European), the brakes-Japanese. There may be other foreign parts that I am not familiar with.

Additionally, there is this issue of "individuality." When I see H-D drivers in doo-rags, vests, baffle-less exhausts, and no helmet, the last thing I see is individuality. I see a group of folks who all look alike. And the pride they show in their bikes - where does this come from. Someone else built the bike. Someone else put the chrome on the after market parts. Someone else made the leather bags and fringe and conchos. What's there to be proud of. It's just a motorcycle. All they did was buy one.

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Old 07-19-2001, 12:09 PM   #100
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Default heavy bikes

Lighter than the VTX by about 100 lbs, wet weight.



I guess what puzzles me is how everyone seems to be getting their panties in a bunch about 600 and 700 lb cruisers having 100 hp engines, decent brakes and radial tires. These are still just cruisers, people: porky, low center of gravity, huge-ass wheel bases, and in most cases, a feet-first riding style. All that has been accomplished is that these bikes now have enough power to get out of the way of the SUV driver with a cellphone stuck in his (or her) ear (who probably STILL doesn't see you).



If you want to really argue performance and pick nits, check out a literbike BBS; otherwise, lets just be happy that cruisers are moving slowly into the 21rst century
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