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Old 05-11-2001, 05:22 AM   #31
hindle
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Default Re: time for a change

Why do you have to be a an experienced race team builder to see the obvious. Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, Ducati they all have reasons to build, race and win. They have a customer base that Harley doesn't.



Wouldn't it make sense to build a sport bike customer base first? If Harely built a real sportbike at a resonable competative price that I didn't have to wait on I would give them a chance. With or without the racing program. Wouldn't that make it easier to justify budgets for race programs to the big wigs at HD? With a sport bike customer base they would have a reason to go out and race and win.



All I know is if you ain't gonna do it right then don't do it at all. Now I'm not saying I know what the right way is but it would make sense that if they were doing it the right way they would have won something in the last decade?
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Old 05-11-2001, 05:31 AM   #32
BBD_Racing
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Default Re: H-D Continues VR1000 Rebuilding Effort

Mark, you really nailed the issue: Scheibe and 8 merry men in a garage. This is the best that HD could do? My problem is this; I am an American engineer and the fact that Harley was even out there with such a pathetic effort is insulting and embarassing.



The linkage with Ford may make all the difference, IF the company decides to realyl go at it whole hog. How much did HRC plow into the RC51? Even they have had problems. This isn't easy and I think that any American motorcyclist and/or engineer is justified in being angry at HD for smearing American engineering with the effort thus far.



It looks like we are incompetant, when the whole problem was corporate neglect. Again, as an American engineer/racer, I would love to see an American company lead the world. My personal choice wouldn't be Harley, with all of its macho BS baggage, but maybe they can get away from that past.



As for Buell, I rode all of them and agree that Eric and his boys are very good engineers. But they are saddled with a worthless engine to work with. Give 'em a real motor and it would be great.
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Old 05-11-2001, 05:41 AM   #33
Gixxerboy
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Default Re: H-D Continues VR1000 Rebuilding Effort

Harley bashing?

Let's see:

An incredibly cash rich bike manufacturer

Huge Nationalistic support (if they wanted)

Able to use a clean sheet - not tied to existing model perceptions (like GSXR/YZF)

Excellent road racers on their team (Picote is no slouch)



What more could a budding race team want?



But they suck. No one's bashing Harley... just a manufacture with it's corporate head up its corporate butt.

Spend some coin on real engineers, real development people and build a real bike.



This is a lot like GM and their Saturn that was 'destined to become a better car than the Japs could make'. It was a better car... than a 10 year old Corolla.

Harley VR1000... Meet Ducati 851.



Maybe if the VR1000 had saddle bags...

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Old 05-11-2001, 05:54 AM   #34
Gixxerboy
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Default Re: H-D Continues VR1000 Rebuilding Effort

Actually Enzo pissed off Mr. Carol Shelby (fired him from his race team) who swore to beat the guy. Henry II didn't care. The Italians were beat with a much modded english chassies (AC) and the 289 motor... then the 427.



Regarding VTX... that's a factory bike. The S&S stuff is custom. No comparison... unless you don't think that the aftermarket can get any more hp out of the VTX.



RE: Buell... great bike, looks cool, awesome chassies (especially considering what it's got to tote around) but sucky engine. We all know Eric could build a better (pure sport) bike with a real engine. Buell is winning despite a major handycap (the engine) and that's certainly a testimony to his skill!



The overpowering question is why is Harley putting a half baked effort into racing. It's got to be embarrising to Harley guys the world over and funny to the rest of us. Why? Because they could have kicked everyone's butts with a concerted effort the first or second time out. Their pathetic effort is what is causing the bashing.



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Old 05-11-2001, 08:07 AM   #35
minime
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Default Re: time for a change

Word from a Harley Davidson spokesperson as of this morning says NO.
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Old 05-11-2001, 08:23 AM   #36
CBR1000F
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Default Re: time for a change

I actually think you've got that backwards. They CAN'T build a roadracing customer base until they've won some races. Would you be a Harley roadracing customer? Would most Harley riders? Heck no... Harley riders (and this is not intended to be a flame, or flamebait) aren't generally into that sort of thing, and the people who ARE, don't ride Harleys. Once they've won a few races (if they ever do) they'll begin to attract a few of those type of customers. I personally am waiting on the alleged new Buell sportbike, it looks promising... if it turns out to be as good as it could be, I'd be interested in owning an American made motorcycle. I think it'd be kind of neat to have a homegrown Ducati competitor.
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Old 05-11-2001, 08:28 AM   #37
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Default Re: By the way....

I have to disagree... I rented a Daewoo Lanos recently. It had 600 miles on it's odometer and I could smell burning oil when I gassed up. That's GOT to be the worst engineered vehicle on the planet.
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Old 05-11-2001, 03:49 PM   #38
BammBamm
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Default Re: H-D Continues VR1000 Rebuilding Effort

In my day...blah, blah, blah...Harley horsepower...blah, blah, blah...with no boots, and we liked it...blah, blah, blah...
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Old 05-12-2001, 11:14 PM   #39
Erston
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Default Re: H-D Continues VR1000 Rebuilding Effort

I believe he was referring to the GT-40 cars, which were definately a Ford effort to dethrone Ferarri...



- Erston
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Old 05-13-2001, 05:18 PM   #40
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Default Re: H-D Continues VR1000 Rebuilding Effort

Those who do not study history are condemned to repeat it.
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