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Old 02-02-2007, 09:33 AM   #21
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Default Re: It's Official: Hoard the Hogs Now.

kpaul, the GMP predicts!
Ok the V-Rod may be the last HD model where the parts manufacturing and assembly are done in America. The next model may be assembled here but any parts that HD makes will be outsourced and probably offshore. Other companies are doing this. In fact what may be left eventually is the brand i.e. engineering, finance and marketing will be done here but everything else we be done somewhere else. As many have pointed out ,HD smartly doesn't want to get locked into a long-term cost structure like Fore and GM.



[b][i]kpaul says workers should share in the risk and the reward of the company. They should go after profit sharing and stock to keep there jobs. When times are good they get rewards for their hard work when times are tough they keep there jobs and HD keeps a skilled U.S. work force...Win Win solution

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Old 02-02-2007, 09:41 AM   #22
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Default There I go again with the there/their thing.

There I go again. with there their thing. You can stop laughing Buz.

kpaul says workers should share in the risk and the reward of the company. They should go after profit sharing and stock to keep their jobs. When times are good they get rewards for their hard work when times are tough they keep their jobs and HD keeps a skilled U.S. work force...Win Win solution

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Old 02-02-2007, 09:43 AM   #23
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Default Re: It's Official: Hoard the Hogs Now.

They have free health care? If so they are probably in the less than 5% Americans who do.. Most of us have to pay a co-pay and a premium at least.
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Old 02-02-2007, 09:44 AM   #24
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Default Re: It's Official: Hoard the Hogs Now.

Two-tiered pay systems are a classic union-busting tactic. It is classic because it works so well.
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Old 02-02-2007, 09:53 AM   #25
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Default Re: It's Official: Hoard the Hogs Now.

Come on KP- You know that the 401k is tied into the HD stock options. You can't expect any industry to continue a path of self-destruction if the industry knows they can devert from the path in the first place. HD has seen profits that every auto exec in Detroit would be envious of. HD also knows that the current path it is on is within years of exploding. The time to make changes is now. Once the changes are made all this whining would subside within months, if not weeks. The Union up there is tied to the minimum wage scale. Now that the Senate and House are going to pass this stupid minimum wage increase ALL these a$$es are going to get a raise based on this. HDs payroll just increased because if that action. How are they going to off-set the "required minimum wage" increase? They can't increase the price of the bikes without backlash. They could increase the price of parts but that more than likely won't happen either. The biggest expense is in payroll. Anymore than that is fluff. These guys get paid fine money but their representitives in the Union think that HD, as an industry, have pockets so deep that they SHOULD get what they want. Remember- HD supplies the jobs. Not the Union. If they see fit to renegotiate because they forecast future declines in product sales then so be it.
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Old 02-02-2007, 10:06 AM   #26
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Default Not exactly

"You know that the 401k is tied into the HD stock options." Mine isn't why would HD's be? HD stock could be just a one component of their 401 portfolio..Very few are structured like Enron's anymore where the only option is company stock. i.e most give you ist of mutal funds to place your contribution as well as the company's contribution.
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Old 02-02-2007, 10:21 AM   #27
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Default Re: Not exactly

Did you elect your 401K options? Most employees of Fortune 500 businesses do. In almost every case there is an option that includes company stock. HD surely does the same thing. Enron made options manditory and that burned the employees. But HD stock has been steady or progressively earning for a decade plus. The 401K administrators surely know that "investing" in the company is good and therefore offer such an option. They would be foolish if they didn't. Question is: how's it set up and how do the benefits work? It's almost a slam dunk in a 401K to offer some investment that is company related. Remember, if elective and if the employees don't elect they lose. Profit sharing are for the "earners" (execs and mgmt). If the company offers Profit Sharing for the labor force good for them, but as a business owner I wouldn't give that option to the labor force because in the simplest terms- they are expendable. Labor can be replace with labor. Management is much harder to replace.
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Old 02-02-2007, 10:25 AM   #28
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Default Some clarification

If kpaul was running HD he would purpose this:

[*]A modest wage increase less than union wants
[*]The companies 401 K proposal. By the way most 401 K programs these days don't limit folks to owning only their companies stock l( the Enron style.) Most allow folks to pick from a selection of Mutaul funds
[*]Don't have workers pay a premium. First, try to increase medical co-pays i.e. this rewards healthy lifestyles. Invest in preventative things like physical fitness and medical centers (handle little things like colds and flu shots) on site.
[*] Create a profit sharing plan. If the company makes a profit the workers get paid for a certain amout of days. e.g. the company has EPS of X the workers get paid Y days extra (where Y=f(X). My company does that.
[*]A modest upfront contract signing bonus. People will be more likely to sign something with a direct immediate award.
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Old 02-02-2007, 10:27 AM   #29
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Default Re: Not exactly

"Profit sharing are for the "earners" (execs and mgmt). If the company offers Profit Sharing for the labor force good for them, but as a business owner I wouldn't give that option to the labor force because in the simplest terms- they are expendable. " Don't agree. see my post on how I would do it.

"Labor can be replace with labor. "

Don't agree. Especially in technical fields..
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Old 02-02-2007, 10:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: It's Official: Hoard the Hogs Now.

Why send these jobs offshore? Just get replacement workers. I'm sure there are lots of folks who would love these jobs at their current (generous) compensation. Let these highly-skilled monkeys that Harley has so insulted find another job that properly rewards them for their awesome skill-set.
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