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Old 10-14-2006, 12:12 PM   #21
The_Aerodynamic_Head
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Default Re: Harley Asks for Concessions From It's Workers.

Really? Um...what's the difference?
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Old 10-14-2006, 12:21 PM   #22
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Default Re: Harley Asks for Concessions From It's Workers.

Well, Mike, if you want to say that the problem isn't with the unions, it's with the cars, then I say, "Who's building the cars?" GM's (and the Big 3 generally) have earned their reputation for inferior quality over the last four decades partly from poor matierial quality, true. But squeaks, rattles, leaks, and sloppy fit-and-finish don't come from the robotic paint booth, they come from the guys doing the assembly. You know, union guys. The ones making 75k, free health care and 90% pensions for doing a semi-skilled 30k job.



It's not the problem that workers abuse their union membership. The union abuses union membership by writing contracts that force membership for all new hires, and that force the company to auto. deduct dues from the paychecks of all workers, even those that don't want to belong. This is extortion (something to which unions are no stranger) and amounts to a tax on wages roughly equivalent to FICA.
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Old 10-14-2006, 12:21 PM   #23
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Default Re: Harley Asks for Concessions From It's Workers.

Its,its,its,(1000 times)

Haste makes waist. Oops, I mean waste.
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Old 10-14-2006, 12:23 PM   #24
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Default Re: Harley Asks for Concessions From It's Workers.

Remember the Air Traffic Controllers strike? The union reps sued and got their jobs back! The excuse was that promoting an illegal strike was part of their job description. I could go on and on about abuses of union reps...including ones who act as spies for management and purposefully blow valid grievance cases by "losing" all the paerwork.



Jimmy Hoffa could tell a few tales about the mob and union pensions.



Then there are the independent truckers who literally get shot at whenever the Teamster's strike.......



Notice that whenever they are given a chance the people who work for Japanese auto plants in the US always tell the unions to fock off.
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Old 10-14-2006, 12:24 PM   #25
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Default Re: Harley Asks for Concessions From It's Workers.

The problem is that corporations can shape and influence market forces to a much greater degree than workers can. And I am a libertarian...It really still is a feudal system. Who is to judge what is a 15/hr job and what is a 27/hr job? If Harley gets concessions, am I going to get a cheaper bike, or is it more money to line the pockets of the execs? Compromise will be needed, but sooner or later, we are going to be a country that produces absolutely nothing. When China and India become the dominant economic forces in the world, we won't even have the brain trust anymore, just a bunch of consumers that do not produce anything. Kind of like a European country, but without all the bennies and holidays.
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Old 10-14-2006, 12:27 PM   #26
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Default Re: Harley Asks for Concessions From It's Workers.

"IT'S" (cue Monty Python music).
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Old 10-14-2006, 12:36 PM   #27
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Default Re: Harley Asks for Concessions From It's Workers.

Right you are. And if the brand manager turns out to be a moron, or indeed if the whole policy of hiring from outside the industry turns out to be a bad idea, guess what? you can fire him! Not so an incompetant factory worker. My brother works for the phone company in D.C. A fellow worker in a union truck backed into a phone pole, knocking it OVER! Phone service was out three blocks in both directions, including to an annex building of the Dep't. of Interior. The $175,000 truck was totalled. The pole landed on and totalled two passenger cars. Was he fired? Nope. He was put on paid leave for three days pending investigation (at the company's expense). As part of arbitration between the company and the union (arbitration at company's expense) the guy was suspended without pay for ten days, the incident would be on his record, to be expunged two years thence on condition of good behaviour going forward. This would prevent him from being promoted (a pure nothing since the guy had already topped-out on the pay scale) for about two years. Finally, the results of the guy's drug test following the wreck would be labelled "inconclusive" and expunged from his employment record immediately.



Later, the company received a grievance filed by the union to get the guy's backpay for the ten-day supension. Company caved. The fellow is now a union steward. My bother reports this is more than common; it's the standard order of business between the C.W.A. and Verizon.



If this were the military, he'd have been convicted of dereliction by a court martial. If he were, God forbid, a company suit, he'd've been fired, and then sued for the damage he caused. He certainly would never work again driving. In the school system, if a school bus driver dings another car, they will never drive a school bus again, and rightfully so, given the prescious cargo. But if it's a union guy, well, gee whiz, he's being oppressed by the Man, pass him a beer! Unions will the end of this nation as a manufactoring power.
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Old 10-14-2006, 01:14 PM   #28
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Default Re: Harley Asks for Concessions From It's Workers.

Company earnings up, so they cut employee compensation? Maybe the employees should all go buy Japanese bikes and ride them to work. LOL!!!

They could just tell their bosses they couldn't afford the Harley's anymore. LOL!
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Old 10-14-2006, 01:19 PM   #29
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Default Re: Harley Asks for Concessions From It's Workers.

Go ***** yourself! Anti union s***** is normally self serving and socially inept. They can be usually found on websites but it's too bad it's this one. I would suspect that you don't work for a living and probably don't ride either.
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Old 10-14-2006, 02:01 PM   #30
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Default Re: Harley Asks for Concessions From It's Workers.

How many concessions, are the CEO, CFO, COO et. al. giving up? One of them will probably net a big bonus after all is done.
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