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Old 10-07-2005, 06:04 AM   #191
caderider
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Default Re: Do you hate HD?

hod carrier - a laborer who carries supplies to masons or bricklayers



Also hodman: laborer, labourer, manual laborer, jack - someone who works with their hands; someone engaged in manual labor
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Old 10-07-2005, 06:54 AM   #192
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Default Re: Do you hate HD?

"I think people like them just fine the way they are made"



Strange, everyone I know with a Harley quickly starts to work trying to get a lot more out of them. Big bore kits, cams, heads, etc...Most any metric already comes with more displacement so they don't need any big bore kits, it come stock. Just more $ you gotta spend.
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Old 10-07-2005, 07:00 AM   #193
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Default Re: Harley Stock Down Over Six Percent

You think everyone is talking about YOU. It is not about you. It's about the market as a whole. That's nice you have a Busa and you went on a ride that had some younger guys & girls on H-Ds. But does that reflect the market as a whole? H-D themselves say the average buyer is well in to the GPTB age range. WELL into that range.



H-D not being able to sell all the bikes after increasing production tells you we are running out of people who want H-Ds.



The fact of the matter is the majority of riders (men that is, women are a drop in the bucket) start out wanting exciting bikes when they are young and get more conservative as they get older and more mellow. I meet a few older guys on Busas from time to time but they are drop in the bucket compared to old guys on H-Ds.



And if you are young and looking for excitement, it is pretty hard to deny that almost everything on the market is more exciting then a H-D, unless you have only rode H-D. If you want exciting and you cross shop just about anything with the H-D or get to test ride at all, you aren't going to be super impressed by the H-D.



The market demographics show that:



- There are far fewer of us younger guys to buy the bike period, and we have a lot less buying power, regardless of whether we want H-Ds or GSX-Rs. This will probably hurt all the bike companies in the next 10 years.



- A huge percentage of the older crowd already has a H-D since Harley has done so amazingly well in the last 10 years.



- There are a huge number of H-Ds out there on the used market. (Good for all of us serious riders)



- The MC fad with everyone wanting a H-D or a chopper is almost over, everyone has one, they are no longer the cool buzzwordy thing among doctors/lawyers/execs, no one cares anymore.



None these things make things look good for H-D (or other manufacturers) in the coming years. We are not being foolish bringing these points up.



You think 25 old guys and 15 young guys even says much? Even if that is representative of your local group of H-D riders if the old guys all stop riding in the next few years or slow down, your local ridership just lost over half it's riders. Go on a group ride with a typical group of 40 squids. You won't see >50% of them being over 50 years old. They are going to be young riders. Riders who will buy a lot more bikes in the next 30 years then someone who is already in their 50s.
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Old 10-07-2005, 07:36 AM   #194
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I made the comment to which you took so much offense.



Someone asked why some people seem to hate H-D. I attempted to explain why there are strong negative feelings towards the brand, some real and some imagined. I'm not really trying to take a side.



Laugh all you want, but judging by the reactions on this thread, and the intense flame war that erupts every time someone brings up H-D, I think you'd have to admit there is indeed huge polarization in respect to The Motor Company.



I've ridden a few Harleys and a Buell enough to get a reasonable idea of what the riding experience is like. I enjoyed the Harleys okay, but they're not my cup of tea. But that certainly doesn't make them bad. I really liked the Buell.



The fact that there is such a strong negative feeling by many towards H-D is nothing new. That in itself probably wouldn't be a concern for the company because they're have always been an equally strong group that "get it." But when the number of people that hold that negative perception grows--in addition to problems like demographics, oversaturation, brand dilution, stiff competition and a troubled economy--they might have something to be concerned about. And mediums like the Web spread positive/negative perceptions like wildfire (a hot topic in marketing). So the fact that many people are expressing their frustration is significant. Is it a real problem yet? Don't know. Plenty of people still love and buy H-Ds. But I'd bet that someone associated with H-D is monitoring this site right now.



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Old 10-07-2005, 07:38 AM   #195
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Default Re: unfair

Excellent Point
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Old 10-07-2005, 08:12 AM   #196
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Default Re: Harley stock down over 6%

I have always wondered why would anyone state "first post"? If someone writes the first post, would the others somehow think its like the 9th post? Is this a cultural thing? Or does this have something to do with the ever declining standards of education? Maybe people can´t count one to nine any more?



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Old 10-07-2005, 08:31 AM   #197
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Default Re: Do you hate HD?

Verry good! I'll put a gold star on your notebook.

But I doubt anyone here needed the definition Despite what Neal on Thursdays said.
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Old 10-07-2005, 08:37 AM   #198
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Default Re: You think new Harleys are going down in price?

>traditional ratio of used/new sales will be

>reestablished



It won´t be reestablished, and the ratio is unnatural anyway, because the used market grows every year meanwhile new sales opportunities are not limitless.



It may be that the market, which is typically cyclical in nature, is already getting saturated.



I hope it will not happen any time soon because I own 2002 carb Fat that I can´t sell because it has Brazilian plates and I work now in Argentina.



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Old 10-07-2005, 08:41 AM   #199
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Default Re: Do you hate HD?

Modern technology? Surely you jest. Inline-4s have been around since, what, 1908? OHC 4-valve engines were in use in 1912.
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Old 10-07-2005, 08:48 AM   #200
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Default Re: Harley Stock Down Over Six Percent

These people whining about "state of the art" are so woefully ignorant about the history of internal combustion engines and the effects of improved metallurgy over the decades that the mind boggles. Much of what we have today is what might have been 40's technology without the interference of the Great Depression and WWII.
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