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sportbikebandit 04-18-2005 10:46 AM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California
I agree Steven. Some states have contracted the training out. In some cases the state subsidizes the price. Some states have both state subsidized and non subsidized. The difference being, there is a waiting list for the subsidized course. I always get nervous when safety stuff or fire and police functions are subcontracted out...I think the potential for passing substandard riders is there i.e. buy your endorsement or license.

thejimmy 04-18-2005 10:49 AM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California
How comprehensive is Harley's 'Rider's Edge' program?

Though I'm leery of a 'corporation' behind this type of bill, well, will the Rider's Edge instructors be more qualified than our local DMV Folks?

Consider this: In the moderate past, as I was taking my California M1 class license riding test, I casually asked my clipboard-toting 'judge' what type bike he rides...

His reply: "Oh I don't ride one of those things...they're too dangerous."

My immediate thought was "How can you stand there and 'judge' my riding skills [at that time, I had been riding bikes of various displacements for some 15 years] when you have NEVER EVEN BEEN ON A BIKE?"

Again, because of the Corporate interest, my curiosity is aroused...

Maybe will wake the DMV up to some degree...

tomk2 04-18-2005 10:53 AM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California
I sure can't see any problem with this bill.

NOBODY is required to take any sort of motorcycle class in California and nobody needs a motorcycle endorsement to buy a motorcycle.

ANYTHING Harley offers in the way of a class is better than nothing. I would bet they'll offer a pretty decent class.

Anyhow it beats the hell out of what the Big 4 bike shops do... loan the newbie 600cc and liter bike buyers little scooters to use for their rider exams.

DaveFla 04-18-2005 10:53 AM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California
I'm no attorney, but it seems to me that HD would have a very large, potentially class action liability if they were found to have improperly licensed riders who were later involved in a statistically higher number of accidents.

Oh, wait, that describes a subset of their recent customer base, not the riders they've trained... ;-)

nokneedragin 04-18-2005 10:59 AM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California
I tend to beleive any corp or gov'mnt actions are a benifit to me. So I see this as HD making it easier to sell bikes to legal licensed riders. I don't think they would pass anyone (the liability is bad enough), I would hope that the law is written that MSF course would also remove the need to take the skills portion of the test, and if Honzookyamkaw offers a program then they should be accorded the same privledge.

I think that the MSF course does eliminate the skills portion of an endorsement in some states as it stands now. The skills test is a joke usually.

2cndeh 04-18-2005 11:29 AM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California
You are wrong. From the California DMV site:

If you are under 21, you must complete a motorcycle rider training course given by the California Highway Patrol (CHP) and provide the completion certificate to DMV to be issued your license. You will not be required to take the motorcycle driving test at DMV.

There are two classes of motorcycle licenses, Class M1 and Class M2.

With a Class M1, you can operate any 2-wheel motorcycle and any motorized vehicle in Class M2.

With a Class M2, you can only operate any motorized bicycle or moped or any bicycle with an attached motor

mscuddy 04-18-2005 11:55 AM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California
Wonder if Harley's Rider Edge course includes bailing wire hints, or how to construct impromptu oil funnels made from discarded newspaper?

The right and wrong way to tie a bandana?

Which chain goes with what wallet? How not to wave at other riders?

The sneer?


robertdcrain 04-18-2005 12:07 PM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California
I am unsure where this may be going, but from experience ( I attended the MSF course in 1992 and then the Experienced Riders Course in 1994...then after a 4 year period of not riding, decided to take the MSF to refresh my skills before buying a new bike) the new riders course has been seriously DUMBED DOWN from what it was in the past. The program is not now what it was 10 years ago. I doubt that this amendment is aimed at making the program better, just more expensive.

phelpsw 04-18-2005 12:26 PM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California
I have experience with the Rider Edge Series of training here in Virginia. It is well worth the time and effort for everyone to attend. Bandana not required. HD offers both the sport bike Buell side and the touring cruiser side of training experience. I think we as riders would welcome anything to take this responsibilty away from the government. I have been licensed in 9 states, taking both the written and riding test. None were even close to real world riding or knowledge level needs. HD - go for it........... I loved both my courses and this was after 35 years of experience, two deer, a CA blonde, a wetback in a stolen car and my brother tried to do me in while on two wheels.

Tigercub 04-18-2005 12:41 PM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California
I understand from the AMA that MSF has allowed this contracting out of rider training. Anyway, I'm not particularly impressed by MSF. They used to have an exercise where you locked up the rear wheel and come to a stop in order to demonstrate that you shouldn't lock up the rear wheel and then release the brake, which could result in a high side. What was the point? To not use the rear brake or don't not use it once you've applied it in a panic, as if you could think through all that before you hit the car.

After the afternoon range session during the 1-day "Experienced Rider class" I asked when we were going out into the street to learn street strategies, which is why I took the class in the first place. Well, of course, there is no street riding session. So, basically all they teach you is how to ride in a parking lot around cones.

It takes years and a hell of a lot of practice to ride like Nicky Hayden, to maneuver away from the once in 10 year near collision. Why not use that time to learn to better position yourself and control your momentum in traffic to avoid those sitautions in the first place?

And anyway, there was no rider training class when I started riding. The dealer showed me the controls of the bike and said take this back road instead of the main highway in front of the shop when you leave. And then he disappeared to go count his money.

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