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mscuddy 04-18-2005 01:01 PM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California
My rider training class was piloting a decrepit Jawa with no brakes in heavy 1970's Los Angeles traffic.

That'll give you the basics real quick.

smithrob75 04-18-2005 01:24 PM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California
Wow !! You're very lucky or unlucky depending on how you look at it..

seruzawa 04-18-2005 01:46 PM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California
Getting a pass on the current MSF course is so easy that it's a bit of a laugh to think that HD could offer something inferior. It's probably not possible. And the little riding test that the State requires for licensing is so ridiculous that anyone could become proficient enough in an hour on a 250 Nighthawk to pass it.

It would seem to me that HD would want people to get good training because well trained riders are more likely to survive and buy more bikes in the future. This is one area where doing the right thing is also a good business practice. It's of no benefit or profit to Harley to send out poorly trained riders.

Oh wait, I forgot that Harley is the devil and that all corporations only want to harm and kill people for profit.

Never mind.

seruzawa 04-18-2005 01:48 PM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California

How about training in the the proper way to wear an EZ-Leaker(tm)?

rashomon 04-18-2005 02:35 PM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California
Harley's Rider's Edge program was designed in cooperation with the MSF to meet standard training requirements. It was developed in conjunction with the Buell Blast because Harley's former CEO and current chairman Jeff Bleustein believes we need to renew the motorcycling population, and that requires readily available training and affordable bikes. Whether you agree with the results or not, it was a noble effort, and one that Harley undertook as a long-term investment. They're certainly not making money on the Blast or Rider's Edge.

tomk2 04-18-2005 03:20 PM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California
Ahh so! Then this whole thing IS a devious conspiracy by Harley Davidson.... to sieze market share in the lucrative "U-21 buyers of $22K cruisers" demographic niche by handing out passing grades in their sub-standard rider training!!!!!!

Those bastards. Those rotten sneaky bastards.

jungkvist 04-18-2005 04:47 PM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California
To hell with basic rider skills. I don't know if anyone's noticed, but mechanical monsters are being sold to children, out there. I realize that your basic dyed-in-the-wool nitwit probably won't benefit from training. but sending a 19 year old out on a GIXXER without decent training, is criminal. Nobody seems to care that you can take your test on a 250 Rebel, then ride away on a ZX -10R. That's like qualifying as an astronaut, after proving you can build a paper airplane.

torrnado 04-18-2005 05:31 PM

Re: Harley-Davidson pulling strings in California
i say any company (manufacturer or not) that wants to further motorcycle safety, education and basic bike maintenance is a great idea!

i just wish honda offered such a program!

mghempel 04-18-2005 05:55 PM

Rider training and conflicts of interest
thejimmy asks about the potential conflict of interest in having HD provide riding training. True, but MSF also has a large conflict of interest as well. They are largely funded by the motorcycle industry, and their executive director is also the executive director of the Motorcycle Industry Council (the "voice" of the industry). In fact, if any of you subscribe to Motorcycle Consumer News (which I heartily recommend), you will have seen their series of articles examining the "dumbing down" of the MSF training program in order to get more customers for the MC industry.

Personally, I say make training mandatory, at full expense. When people have to pay, they typically take it more seriously, while if it was subsidized or free, they would tend to discount the value of the training. The type of people I see avoiding training (mid-life crisis sufferers or squids) typically spend more on chrome or tires than the cost of a good training program, but would probably benefit most from training.

Badkat 04-18-2005 07:19 PM

Re: H-D snuggling up to MSF in California
The current MSF course (BRC) and Riders Edge are the same program. RE adds things like "this is your dealership, salesperson, shop, parts, accessories, yada" type stuff which adds 2 more evenings to the BRC.

I see a conflict of interest, similar to GM or Ford training drivers so they can have a license. The state should have control over license programs, and contracts to provide training should be bid upon by companies that have no vested interest in motorcycle sales. There should be no direct advertising IMO of any particular brand bike/gear/etc. This turns the program into a sales pitch instead of focusing on the training at hand.

It seems MSF and H-D are working together, subverting state constitutions in an attempt to control all motorcycle training nationwide.

OBTW, a recent nationwide study found Team Oregons' training program superior to all others.

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