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Old 01-18-2001, 01:53 PM   #11
mpk
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Default Re: Another Record Quarter for Harley

Good post debunking the whole resale value thing. One other factor that's never factored into depreciation discussions is the time value of money. If you had 15k-20k to spend on a bike but instead of a Harley or BMW, you only spent 8k on a Suzuki Bandit 1200, you've got 7k to 12k earning something. (Or that you're not paying interest on.)Over a few years, this adds up and goes a long way toward offsetting differences in depreciation.
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Old 01-18-2001, 01:54 PM   #12
ivan_carumba
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Default Re: Waving Back

LOL man LOL, funny stuff : )
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Old 01-18-2001, 02:52 PM   #13
john
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Default Re:Nice try

You realize that in order to prevent people "biting" on something, MO would have to stop posting ANY articles about Harley. Next, they will have to stop posting anything about Suzuki/Yamaha cuz of the R1/GSXR squabble. Next will be anything about tourers, cuz the hardcore sportbike crowd will bash on the "couches" and vice-versa. It always happens. ITS MOTORCYCLE ONLINE. MOTORCYCLE being the keyword, ALL motorcycles.
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Old 01-18-2001, 03:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: Another Record Quarter for Harley

FWIW, I wouldn't expect the bubble to burst anytime soon. Say the fervor cooled a little bit and the Dealers couldn't command the big mark-up over MSRP. Can you imagine how many buyers would crawl out of the woodwork if they could get their favorite Harley for MSRP???



After the Gulf War I wanted a Harley. I was going to have to put $1,000 down, and wait six months to get it. I said forget it, and bought a Honda. I've had all kinds of bikes, including a used Harley, but I swore I'd never buy a new Harley for more than MSRP. I'd still love to have one.... and I'm still waiting. It's been a long time since the Gulf War.



Oh well....



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Old 01-18-2001, 06:35 PM   #15
Roland
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Default Give me a break!

I hope youre joking... thats the last thing the motorcycling community needs. Harley owners buy aftermarket exhaust kits just like every other motorcycle owner out there.



As you say... "stupidity begs for regulation." I couldnt agree with those words more, anyone asking a legislator to take away their freedom needs to learn to appreciate what they're losing.



Live and let live.
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Old 01-18-2001, 07:07 PM   #16
starvingstudent
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Default Re: Another Record Quarter for Harley

Okay, so maybe I overshot on the insurance estimates. However, a couple posters above mentioned investing the other money, which alters things again.



So here's more math:



Let's say that the ZR7/Nighthawk/Bandit owner loses $3000 on the value of the bike for 10 years, the HD owner loses 0, and the HD owner only pays $1000 more over ten years (a somewhat generous underestimate) for insurance. Remember the HD owner spends, say, $2000 more on customization than the standard-bike owner does. However, remember that if all other factors are equal, the Japanese bike owner now has $12,000 of cash left over. Let's say this person is very conservative, and chooses a savings bank instead of the stock market. They earn only, say, 3% APR (investing in the stock market could make a much higher annual yield). However, after 10 years, that 3% APR means that they make over $4000 in interest on their cash.



That means that after 10 years, the Harley rider will have lost $4000 more than the Japanese standard rider.



Another factor is for people like myself, who don't have $18,000 in cash handy. Financing a bike is little better than high-seas piracy--in the end, you'll pay nearly twice the value of the bike if you sit down and add up all of your financing payments. Many people have the ability to buy a new $6000 motorcycle with cash, but would have to finance an $18,000 bike--and they'd lose out big-time even if the resale value held steady.



In closing, let me say that if you just plain prefer the sound, feel, and ride of a Harley-Davidson, GOOD. Buy one and never look back (except when changing lanes, of course). But if you aren't devoted to any one type of motorcycle and you're very concerned with money, you can get a new 65-75hp Japanese standard and it will be easier on you financially in the long run.



Starving Student
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Old 01-18-2001, 07:10 PM   #17
starvingstudent
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Default Re: Another Record Quarter for Harley

No type of motorcycle is immune to a stupid owner buying loud pipes. Cruisers have them; sportbikes have them. Hell, there's a Nighthawk half a block up my street with a Vance and Hines pipe--loudest CB750 I've ever heard. I'm sure even some Goldwing riders put loud pipes on their bikes.
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Old 01-18-2001, 08:04 PM   #18
superbikefan
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Default Re: You said it, bro!

I posted the original comment today, and afterwards I thought to myself, "I just know some moron will throw out the old If I have to explain you wouldn't understand cliche". Well someone did, and the reply above is just hilarious and absolutely on the money. Maybe everyone will get the point!
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Old 01-19-2001, 03:47 AM   #19
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Default Re: Another Record Quarter for Harley

It's interesting you bring up Ducati, a company tied to the use of "desmo" engine. This is another company that has elected not to develop an inline 4 (which was once considered) or to abandon their trademark valve configuration largely for reasons of tradition (read just about any article about the new engine to confirm this). No doubt you will say they have had racing success, but that points more to the difference in types of motorcycle between Harley and Ducati. That Ducati is able to do what they have with their engine is incredible. If they were to use different technology it would probably be even better.



Harley has made major advances with the twin cam. That it works so well given the fundamental problems with the design is amazing.



I am really curious by all these people that say they woud buy a Harley if they made a world class engine. Do you now ride metric cruisers? Or are you expecting Harley/Buell to compete against things like the 996 or Mille or RC51? Harley's torque output is competitive or superior to most metric cruisers (the Valk being a clear exception). Yamaha even tried to program "pulse" into its massive V-Twin to mimic the feel of a Harley engine.



And that is the thing Harley riders can't explain. That loping rythm of the single-pin 45 degree V-Twin just does something to some of us. Others see that some thing as a failure. I don't like the feel of inline 4 motorcycles. I didn't like the amazing smoothness and quietness of the Goldwing. The boxer from BMW does nothing for me. I cannot fathom why anyone would want a Hayabusa for street use. A 'busa rider probably can't fathom what it is about the Harley engine that speaks to me. What is great is that there are so many different brands/models to choose from that each of us can probably find something we like.
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Old 01-19-2001, 03:56 AM   #20
Pablo008
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Default Re: Another Record Quarter for Harley

I ride Harleys and but I have to tell a "wave story". With all the newbies riding Harleys sometimes they get a little mixed up. I have a couple of Harley's in the garage but I also have a Buell. When I ride the Buell, I use a full face helmet, Vanson leathers etc. Well when I ride by these new Harley riders they give me the cold shoulder because they think I'm on a "japanese crotch rocket". I actually get a pretty big charge out of it. No wave, they won't even look at me.

I wish they could see me laugh (at them) under my helmet.
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