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Old 01-14-2001, 10:46 PM   #101
spindizzy
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Default Re: Water-Cooled Harley Discussion

Too late - Ducatti are using a tiptronic style gear shift on their SBK contenders this year.
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Old 01-15-2001, 06:17 AM   #102
CYCLE_MONKEY
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Default Re: Water-Cooled Harley Discussion

No, they're not. M/C transmissions are sequential manual transmissions, the tiptronic is a manually-shifted AUTOMATIC, with torque converter, hydraulic pumps, etc. Their push-button shifting will be more like M/C drag racers use, with a pneumatic shift mechanism and an ignition kill. Some Grand Prix 2-stroke bikes have been using this for a few years.
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Old 01-15-2001, 07:53 AM   #103
ZRXRy
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Default Re: Water-Cooled Harley Discussion

"another thing to consider is demographics---harley has to be scared when they see that the only people who can afford their products will all be dead or in wheelchairs in another 15 years. they have to wonder what they'll have to do to woo and win the next generation of riders."



Good point. There is certainly a lot of interest in Harley's among younger people, but not many of them are actual bike riders, nor could they afford a Harley. I guess a lot of today's Harley buyers/riders are boomers who came of age in the late 50's thru the mid 80's, when Japan Inc. was selling bikes like hotcakes, bikes that young people could afford. Because of those cheap Japanese bikes, there a lot of boomers now who have experience riding bikes, so when they had the money they went out and bought "the best". Unfortunately for all bike mfr's, bike ownership among people in my generation (just post-boomer) and younger is a shadow of what it once was. It went out of style for a while, and new bikes are rather expensive to get into, especially with the dearth of smaller, less expensive models that are available.



Leaving aside re-entry, over-40 buyers of cruisers, I wonder how big the current resurgence in bike registration is?
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Old 01-15-2001, 11:10 AM   #104
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Default Re: CYCLE_MONKEY_HERE

I would say Il Mostro (the Monster to us non-Italian speaking types) is the only one I mentioned that wasn't a cruiser. I just threw that one in for price/performance comparison. The V-Max, and the Eliminator were surely marketed as such, and either would eat the TC-88B's lunch also. I'll have to look for "Consumer News". By the way, all the tests I've read have bashed Harley for it's rather cheesy running gear and brakes. The reason the tranny had to be redesigned for the "B" motor is because with the engine not shaking anymore, the old tranny wouldn't shift! I.E. if you're trying to push a long, tight-fitting shaft (no phallic references, please!) through some holes, what do you do to make it slide in easier? Wiggle it around! Without the vibration wiggling the shift shafts, they were binding up. It IS a good move to put that redesign in all the bikes. This, however, probably has more to do with the production realities/economies of stocking 1 P/N vs. 2 for the tranny and related internal parts.
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Old 01-16-2001, 05:01 AM   #105
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Default Re: Water-Cooled Harley Discussion

Have you ever tried a Guzzi California? Like all Guzzis, they go around corners as on rails, remember the basic chassis is the same as the Le Mans sportbike, and also the brakes are first class Brembo equipment. I can't wait to see what they come out with now that Aprilia are providing them with the investment that was lacking during the De Tomaso era (similar to the Harley/AMF era).

I agree with Tom and all others who say 'to each his own'. It would be a boring world if everyone rode the same make and style of bike.

Jota
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Old 01-17-2001, 02:25 PM   #106
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Default Re: Enough flames, let

Here's some other math for you.



Buy a Nighthawk 750 (almost no insurance cost) for $5500. Sell it ten years later for $2500 (about what they are around where I live). Total loss, $3000 for the bike and maybe $1000 for insurance. Total loss: $4000.



Now take a Fatboy, buy for $18000, pay insurance through the nose because of high theft rates and other factors, dump $2000 of custom doo-dads in, and sell 10 years later for $18000. Total loss: 0 for the bike, $2000 for "necessary" customization (when's the last time you saw a stock HD?), maybe $6000 for insurance, and you end up with a $8000 loss. And that's not even including the higher maintainence costs of a HD Fatboy over a Honda Nighthawk.



Now which is a better investment? Even ignoring the fact that the Nighthawk is more reliable, handles better, accelerates better, and in my opinion is more comfortable, it's obvious that the Honda is the way to go.
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Old 01-17-2001, 04:00 PM   #107
nortonrob
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Default Re: Who you call

I agree with you rather than the string that followed, its all down to personal preference, doesn't make me any better or worse of a person, (if it did? did it happen the minute I traded my hayabusa for a fatboy, 'cause I didn't notice!)



people are reading too much into this, and more power to HD for pushing the(ir) limits. I for one can't wait for the new models, might even trade sell an old Norton or two for a deposit.
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Old 01-18-2001, 05:04 AM   #108
Randy_P_Moran
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Default Re: Water-Cooled Harley Discussion

As an Army veteran, a father, and a road racer, I dream of the day when I don't have to be ashamed of America's only large manufacturer of motorcycles. I've listened to the excuses for years. Now it's time for Harley to grow up. The leather tassel crowd will still buy every cruiser H-D can make, and a Harley sport bike will register with them the same way the Japanese ones do, which is to say not at all. Just build the goddam thing so I can race an American bike that's made to race.
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Old 01-19-2001, 05:28 AM   #109
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Default Breaking Harley News! Rebadged Vmax motor going into 883!

Banking on Honda and Yamaha's proven technical experience, Harley is planning on introducing in 2002 as a 2003 model their new Sportster 12V Scepter-glide. With the motor from Yamaha's wickedly-fast V-Max, and the suspension and braking from Honda's outstanding VFR800 Interceptor, Harley is going after the much-overlooked "retro-muscle-bike-that-can-handle" segment of the market. The Japanese parts will be imported into the US and then prominently labeled "re-badged in USA" to avoid confusion among traditional Harley enthusiasts. The bike will be "competitively priced" somewhere between the price of a ZX-12R and a Ducati 996R. Harley is reportedly also considering offering a side-car and hard bags for those looking to go on long trips.
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Old 01-19-2001, 03:53 PM   #110
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Default Re: Breaking Harley News! Rebadged Vmax motor going into 88

Motorcyclists are such a silly lot. Always arguing the merits of one bike or genre over another. Most any motorcycle is pretty cool as long as you can wring it out somewhere. Personally, I think 5 or 6 bikes would just about be enough to fulfill all the different 2 wheeled appetites I experience from one day to the next. Until I can afford that, I'll keep riding my VFR over hill and dale. (Although my (stolen) CBR900RR and (previous bike) FXDX were very cool for what I used them for.
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