Motorcycle.com

scapco · 03-30-2004, 04:30 AM

First Post!

What a joke. They got away with a major design flaw/problem and the customer has to pay to fix it. I'll stick with my Kawasaki.

seruzawa · 03-30-2004, 04:56 AM

Guess we're not going to have a new precedent that allows people to sue manufacturers over BS advertising hype. Wouldn't that be great though? Actually being able to sue companies that lie about their products in ad copy.

Well, that's too bad. I'd like to sue Honda over the Magna transmission and Suzuki over the GSX carb problems.

I'd love to go after GM for their "longest lasting most reliable trucks" crap, too.

Black and Decker would be easy meat.

The list is endless.

Who believes ad copy anyhow?

sportbike_pilot · 03-30-2004, 04:59 AM

Sounds to me like common sense does prevail every once in a while even in legal circles. The guy who filed this suit was a dolt and deserves ignominity.

pdad13 · 03-30-2004, 05:22 AM

I think one of the main issues here is how long they extended the warranty for the bad cam. The article doesn't say. Also, how many bikes were affected?

Harley seems to have admitted a design flaw. Sounds to me like there should be a recall. If I owned a Twin Cam and that cam went bad after the warranty extension expired, theyÂ’d have one hell of a fight getting 495 bones out of me. I can be mean when it comes to robbery. And even meaner if IÂ’m stuck on the side of the road with a broken cam and nothing to do but ponder why IÂ’m being inconvenienced and how much time IÂ’m wasting.

I just need to say this: While I appreciate all motorcycles, and admire Harley Davidson for their great business and branding success, the Harley CultÂ’s loyalty seems to be taken advantage of here. I understand the lure of HD lifestyle brand and the appeal of exclusivity as well as anyone (yes, I am in Advertising), but this smells of a particular kind of arrogance. The same kind that of arrogance that got them beaten up by the British manufacturers, and later, the Japanese. Let them eat cake?

This is why I too ride a Kawasaki.

Then again, I donÂ’t have all the info here. So if anyone else does, please enlighten me.

pdad13 · 03-30-2004, 05:28 AM

Oh, I do have to add this: The lawsuit was a bit silly. Harley could just claim that as far as they knew, they had a great design until a flaw was discovered. You won't win a suit over commercial ad copy unless there is a gross inaccuracy in the content. Remember "Let the buyer beware."

The real problem is how The Motor Company is handling the problem with their product.

bigjames · 03-30-2004, 05:32 AM

Harley changed bearing suppliers! That's right, they quit using good old American Timken bearings and started using nasty old foreign INA bearings. The cams are fine, it was simple bearing failure not a design flaw. Once the flaw was finally determined, it was fixed by replacing the now damaged cams and putting a decent damn bearing in its place. Still not as bad as the original Honda Interceptor main bearing problem that Honda still hasn't admitted fault for...but then again, they had no resale value any way.

This is actually a triumph for everybody, a law suit that should never had been allowed to be filed got beat, about damn time.....

Plus all the 1999 and 2000 Harley's have an updated cam set to boot.....

and yes, I wojld buy one, matter of fact did 2003 Electra Glide Classic, with Timken bearings behind the cam.....

BigJames

bigjames · 03-30-2004, 05:33 AM

have had it happen on a R1100RT and K1200LT. The replacement wheels lok the same but are not. BMW refused to even talk about replacing them. BIG difference in customer service and yes, I still own the K1200LT any way...

BigJames

Buzglyd · 03-30-2004, 05:52 AM

Imagine if we could sue the pols after all the bull***** campaign ads are played out.

Now that would be fun!

pdad13 · 03-30-2004, 06:00 AM

So who's fault is that? It may not have been a design flaw, but it's still Harley's product, regardless of who the OEM parts supplier was. Do you think it's fair to potentially ask a customer to pay for a poor choice of bearing supplier?

Did they replace all of the cam sets with the bad bearings?

And the reason why Harley re-sale values are so high is that there are a certain group of people who are willing to pay blood for a motorcycle that, by most objective measures, is mediocre at best (excepting the V-Rod). They've bought a brand image and a membership in a particular club. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want. In fact, I admire the marketing sense that Harley has employed. But I RIDE a motorcycle that I enjoy because of it's performance on the road, not because of it's performance in the blue book. If anyone gets a similar satisfaction from simply being seen on a Harley, God bless 'em. That's their choice.

But let's see what happens to those resale values as Harley keeps ramping up production. Hope they've got another V-Rod up their sleeves.

obandoj · 03-30-2004, 06:03 AM

Scene at your local HD dealer:

Costumer: My engine is Knocking.

Service Manager: Bring it back when it brakes.

Costumer: That sucks and it could kill me and my passenger.

Service Manager: would you like to buy some overpriced accesories?

Costumer: You #$&*

Slam! Sound of door hitting costumers butt on his way out!

03-30-2004, 04:30 AM	#1
scapco Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2	Re: Decision on Harley TwinCam Suit First Post! What a joke. They got away with a major design flaw/problem and the customer has to pay to fix it. I'll stick with my Kawasaki.

03-30-2004, 04:56 AM	#2
seruzawa Robby Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: 8501 ft. Posts: 16,803	Re: Decision on Harley TwinCam Suit Guess we're not going to have a new precedent that allows people to sue manufacturers over BS advertising hype. Wouldn't that be great though? Actually being able to sue companies that lie about their products in ad copy. Well, that's too bad. I'd like to sue Honda over the Magna transmission and Suzuki over the GSX carb problems. I'd love to go after GM for their "longest lasting most reliable trucks" crap, too. Black and Decker would be easy meat. The list is endless. Who believes ad copy anyhow? __________________ I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.

03-30-2004, 04:59 AM	#3
sportbike_pilot Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 729	Re: Decision on Harley TwinCam Suit Sounds to me like common sense does prevail every once in a while even in legal circles. The guy who filed this suit was a dolt and deserves ignominity.

03-30-2004, 05:22 AM	#4
pdad13 Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,733	Re: Decision on Harley TwinCam Suit I think one of the main issues here is how long they extended the warranty for the bad cam. The article doesn't say. Also, how many bikes were affected? Harley seems to have admitted a design flaw. Sounds to me like there should be a recall. If I owned a Twin Cam and that cam went bad after the warranty extension expired, theyÂ’d have one hell of a fight getting 495 bones out of me. I can be mean when it comes to robbery. And even meaner if IÂ’m stuck on the side of the road with a broken cam and nothing to do but ponder why IÂ’m being inconvenienced and how much time IÂ’m wasting. I just need to say this: While I appreciate all motorcycles, and admire Harley Davidson for their great business and branding success, the Harley CultÂ’s loyalty seems to be taken advantage of here. I understand the lure of HD lifestyle brand and the appeal of exclusivity as well as anyone (yes, I am in Advertising), but this smells of a particular kind of arrogance. The same kind that of arrogance that got them beaten up by the British manufacturers, and later, the Japanese. Let them eat cake? This is why I too ride a Kawasaki. Then again, I donÂ’t have all the info here. So if anyone else does, please enlighten me.

03-30-2004, 05:28 AM	#5
pdad13 Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,733	Re: Decision on Harley TwinCam Suit Oh, I do have to add this: The lawsuit was a bit silly. Harley could just claim that as far as they knew, they had a great design until a flaw was discovered. You won't win a suit over commercial ad copy unless there is a gross inaccuracy in the content. Remember "Let the buyer beware." The real problem is how The Motor Company is handling the problem with their product.

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03-30-2004, 05:32 AM	#6
bigjames Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 408	Back Off Non-Harley People, the real problem was... Harley changed bearing suppliers! That's right, they quit using good old American Timken bearings and started using nasty old foreign INA bearings. The cams are fine, it was simple bearing failure not a design flaw. Once the flaw was finally determined, it was fixed by replacing the now damaged cams and putting a decent damn bearing in its place. Still not as bad as the original Honda Interceptor main bearing problem that Honda still hasn't admitted fault for...but then again, they had no resale value any way. This is actually a triumph for everybody, a law suit that should never had been allowed to be filed got beat, about damn time..... Plus all the 1999 and 2000 Harley's have an updated cam set to boot..... and yes, I wojld buy one, matter of fact did 2003 Electra Glide Classic, with Timken bearings behind the cam..... BigJames

03-30-2004, 05:33 AM	#7
bigjames Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 408	BMW bendable wheels NOT replaced have had it happen on a R1100RT and K1200LT. The replacement wheels lok the same but are not. BMW refused to even talk about replacing them. BIG difference in customer service and yes, I still own the K1200LT any way... BigJames

03-30-2004, 05:52 AM	#8
Buzglyd Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 10,137	Re: Decision on Harley TwinCam Suit Imagine if we could sue the pols after all the bull***** campaign ads are played out. Now that would be fun! __________________ Jay Leno: "President Obama released his tax returns. It turns out he made $900,000 less in 2011 than he did in 2010. You know what that means? Even Obama is doing worse under President Obama."

03-30-2004, 06:00 AM	#9
pdad13 Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,733	Re: Back Off Non-Harley People, the real problem was... So who's fault is that? It may not have been a design flaw, but it's still Harley's product, regardless of who the OEM parts supplier was. Do you think it's fair to potentially ask a customer to pay for a poor choice of bearing supplier? Did they replace all of the cam sets with the bad bearings? And the reason why Harley re-sale values are so high is that there are a certain group of people who are willing to pay blood for a motorcycle that, by most objective measures, is mediocre at best (excepting the V-Rod). They've bought a brand image and a membership in a particular club. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want. In fact, I admire the marketing sense that Harley has employed. But I RIDE a motorcycle that I enjoy because of it's performance on the road, not because of it's performance in the blue book. If anyone gets a similar satisfaction from simply being seen on a Harley, God bless 'em. That's their choice. But let's see what happens to those resale values as Harley keeps ramping up production. Hope they've got another V-Rod up their sleeves.

03-30-2004, 06:03 AM	#10
obandoj Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Arizona Posts: 912	Re: Decision on Harley TwinCam Suit Scene at your local HD dealer: Costumer: My engine is Knocking. Service Manager: Bring it back when it brakes. Costumer: That sucks and it could kill me and my passenger. Service Manager: would you like to buy some overpriced accesories? Costumer: You #$&* Slam! Sound of door hitting costumers butt on his way out!