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longride 02-13-2003 08:12 AM

Re: Harley Gets Second Place
No the problems weren't "fixed" until they went bad. Since when are transmissions that lock up and broken frames not "serious and potentially fatal" problems? My TL 1000 frame broke twice. I got rid of it before it broke again. Suzuki never even admitted a problem, much less fix it out of warranty.

longride 02-13-2003 08:14 AM

Re: Harley Gets Second Place
"I love the fact that most detractors of H-D, and Buell never seem to own one themselves."

Wow, I just said that above! I wonder where all the outrage comes from, when these people never owned a product from a company they seem to know everything about.

seruzawa 02-13-2003 08:27 AM

Re: Harley Gets Second Place
Oh yeah. Some of those problems went on for years with the Big 4 doing nothing to fix them.

So if your $200 stator blows at 6 months(free warranty fix), and then it blows again at 18 months(no fix).. and then again at 24 months(no fix), each time costing you another $200 out of pocket.... And this stator problem affects several years of production with absolutely no attempt ever made to correct the problem because the bean counters say it's cheaper to replace the blown ones and to hell with the customers after the warranty period? And if you use your bike a lot you've got to carry an extra stator and wiring harness around at all times?

There were only a certain number of twin cam engines that were affected by the problem, as I recall, and HD fixes those engines if they blow, even if the warranty has expired.

Try to get any work for free from the Big 4 after your warranty is up. They laughed at me when I had the all-too-common blown VF700 transmission after the warranty period. They knew these trannys were delicate, but since most went past the warranty period they offered nothing.

And you think that this is Big 4 superiority?

seruzawa 02-13-2003 08:31 AM

Re: Harley Gets Second Place
And don't forget that the inline-4s come with a discount coupon for the Brain Tank.

longride 02-13-2003 08:38 AM

Re: Harley Gets Second Place
Love letter from ZX12 owners:

To: Kawasaki Motors Inc.

We the owners of Kawasaki's flagship model zx12r have been plagued with numerous accounts of extreme premature clutch wear, up to and including complete basket disintegration. The results of this are; owners being left with several hundred dollar bills for clutch pack replacement,purchasing modified clutch hubs from after-market dealers, who are very familiar with the design flaw and complete engine replacement due to damaged crankcases.

We realize that someone could burn-out a clutch in any vehicle in just one day. Unfortunately, this is not just someone. This is the vast majority of zx12r owners, with only several thousand miles of use. Keep in mind most of us strictly obeyed Kawasaki's double beak-in request of 2000 miles.

The result of a basket failure at the speeds this bike can reach, could very easily result in death. We feel that this is a design error and not a case of abuse. At the very least, we are asking Kawasaki to supply us with a safe basket, preferably from Muzzy's at no charge and one set of clutch plates. These claims can be substantiated by the number of warranty claims and by the numbers of sales of after-market units with the necessary modifications. Many of us are brand loyal and for those who are not, this is a wonderful opportunity to come good with the problem and make them see why we purchased KAWASAKI!

Your Customers.


The Undersigned

See it here:

Big shoulder shrug from Kaw on this one.

Buzglyd 02-13-2003 08:41 AM

Re: Harley Gets Second Place
I've also been to the factory in Wisconsin as well as the assembly plant in York, PA. The York tour was really worth it.

I read Peter Egan's column. It was right on. Of course what does he know? He only owns and rides them.

Another myth: "all those low-mileage harleys that have been sitting in yuppy garages for the last five years are going to suddenly flood the market and the resale value will plummet!"

Buzglyd 02-13-2003 08:42 AM

Re: Harley Gets Second Place
That reads like a cut and paste from a KPaul post about three months ago.

seruzawa 02-13-2003 08:47 AM

Re: Harley Gets Second Place
I think it goes deeper than this. After all, there is no real empirical data to justify calling Harleys junk since they split from AMF. You're dealing with irrationality here.

After all, if you don't like Cruisers and Harleys in particlular, then don't ride them. Why all the beef? Are these HDs and cruisers hurting anyone? And are the sportbike guys hurting anyone either? What justifies the unhinged ramblings of idiots like the Highwatman and his ilk?

Maybe it's just the plain lack of manhood and maturity in some people that compels them to put others down compulsively. Makes themselves feel superior when in reality they have nothing to feel superior about.

"Gee I'm on the latest high-tech marvel, it's at least 0.0001% better than last year's high-tech marvel. I'm better than you."

This is no different than the idiots like the Highwayman. "I'm on my REAL motorcycle... it's made in America (with loads of foreign parts but we don't want to talk about that)......and I'm better than you.

These clowns should just grow-up.

Enough ranting, It's going to be in the 40's this weekend and I'm outahere. I ain't been on my literbike since November, so if I just slip on my raingear here.......

seruzawa 02-13-2003 08:49 AM

Re: Harley Gets Second Place
Stop complaining. The big 4 are better because, well...... THEY JUST ARE!!

KPaulCook 02-13-2003 08:49 AM

Re: Harley Gets Second Place
"While other big American companies (GM, Ford, GE, etc.) are sending their jobs out of the U.S. as quick as they can, HDI is expanding their facilities and hiring more Americans. " Right on! Well said! In the end, HD will succeed. Morale of the employees is the most underestimated stat in corporate management. I have seen the morale in my company drop to record levels. What does it mean? Folks are less productive. Less willing to go that extra mile to work that overtime or weekend. Etc. Less willing, to make sacrifices. Employees are more adapt to be self-serving rather than team players. I saw a study in MBA School about a direct correlation between employee morale and profit. I wish I could find it.

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