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Old 01-16-2003, 01:47 PM   #111
longride
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Default Re: But Seriously Folks, LET'S BLAME THE LAWYERS

"I guess you also blame the cops for the existence of crime."



Actually you can blame the lawyers for that too.
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Old 01-16-2003, 03:09 PM   #112
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Default Re: Harley Class Action Suit

Yea, but he has the bike I want, but as I said earlier I'm a teacher so I'll just be happy with my EX500.
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Old 01-16-2003, 03:16 PM   #113
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Default Re: Harley Class Action Suit

Why, thats absurd, Kpaul is an engineer, with other engineers working under him [eeew], He's a legend in his own mind, out-standing in his field! He predicted the death of V-twins in racing, and by-golly Ducati builds a V-4 GP bike! pretty soon Hardley-Ableson will be building inline fours that look suspisously like ZX6 engine's, just ask him!
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Old 01-16-2003, 03:49 PM   #114
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Default Re: Harley Class Action Suit

Hey, if anyone out there has an FXDX they want to get rid of cheap for fear it grenade on them let me know.
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Old 01-16-2003, 06:05 PM   #115
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Default Re: Harley Class Action Suit

You are correct that for the most part, the basic appearance of the Harleys have not changed for quite some time. However, to say the bikes have only been "massaged" would be incredibly inaccurate. Not only have there been completely new engine designs that -- given their design brief -- are quite impressive, every model has received new frames, suspension, engine management (unitl recently, the fuel injection introduced on Softails, added to the touring line for '02) was among the most sophisticated on the market. Very little that would fit on a 1992 Harley would fit on a 2002.



Harleys do what they are designed to do very well. Though relatively young (now 2, between the ages of 22 and 26 I put about 35000 miles on two harleys, most of the miles with my wife on the back, almost none of the miles in any group setting (unless you count my mom and dad).



Harleys are not sportbikes, nor are they intended to be. People that ride them do not intend them to be sportbikes. Think modern Ford T-Bird vs. the Corvette; one a cruiser, the other a sports car.



As for Porsche being called in to help on the V-Rod (their work only on the engine, by the way), this is not unusual in the least. Porshe's consulting/engineering arm is the source of a great deal of the company's profits. They have even done work for Mercedes. One of the reasons given by Harley for the help from Porsche was that they were more concerned with making the TC88 50 state legal while maintaining an air cooled design.



As for me, I like almost all bikes. But I love Harleys and Buells. They make me smile. I test ride other brands on occasion; in my heart I want to love the Falco, for example, but it fails to move me. And in the end, that is what motorcycling must be about -- finding the bike that moves you on an emotional level. If I find a bike other than my M2 cyclone that will do that, I will jump on it (that bike is not the Firebolt, by the way, a bike I enjoyed by felt no connection to).
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Old 01-16-2003, 06:09 PM   #116
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Currently age 28. Owned 1 Honda, 2 Harleys, and a Buell (none simultaneously). Liked them all for different reasons. I'm not sure KPaul would understand any of them.
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Old 01-16-2003, 08:16 PM   #117
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Default Re: Harley Class Action Suit

As we all know, there ARE plenty of Corvette, Ferrari, Porsche, Harley, Ducati and GSXYZFCBRPDQ poseurs.



Your statement of "A guy who owns a Corvette talking about posers" certainly APPEARS to imply that you believe that Corvette owners talking about poseurs is akin to the Pot calling the Kettle Black Forgive me if I reacted based on what you appeared to imply.
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Old 01-16-2003, 08:17 PM   #118
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Very well written and accepted on my part. Please read some additional H-D business driven decisions in magazines such as Business 2.0 and other business periodicals--not biker magazines. Here you will learn that H-D itself is struggling with where to go next concerning their marketing and their target market. The best thing H-D can do is lose the "retro" and move up as they have in the V-Rod. Retro's dead and I don't know why America keeps trying to go back to what wasn't all that good anyway.



As far as Buells, I love 'em. I only wish H-D would let Erik do what he needs and wants to do in the engine departure. H-D is overlooking a treasure in their own backyard (typical H-D) by not supporting Erik more. The Lightning XB9S may shortly find its way into my garage because it represents some of the best America has to offer on the sportbike scene and it suits me fine as a cut-loose hooligan romp of a bike.
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Old 01-17-2003, 01:57 AM   #119
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I agree that Harley will have to expand the V-Rod line. But despite doom and gloom forcasts, Harley continues to set sales records year after year. It can't go on forever, but there will always be some market for their core product. The hardest thing for Harley to do is to expand their product line without p*ssing off core constituents. The V-Rod is a first step.



And you you still couldn't help that little dig about business mags. Can't accept that someone who rides a Harley may be intelligent? I responded to the portion of your post that made sweeping generalizations, not future business decisions. Besides, business mags routinely praise HD for the amount of money they put back into R&D/product research. They have to figure out what comes next, but they seem well equipped to do so despite the naysayers.
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Old 01-17-2003, 07:16 AM   #120
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Default Re: Harley Class Action Suit

Business magazines were not meant to be a dig--to the contrary. In my discussions with H-D personnel they all state that their market is changing. This can be seen at one the H-D stores near me where H-D owners pull up in Porsche's and BMW's and the guy who comes looking something out of Easy Rider stands out like a sore thumb; never said H-D owners were not intelligent. America is developing into enclaves, whether it be cultural, ethnically, social/economic or through its habits. What H-D is selling now (again, other than the V-Rod) will surely lose its future market place. Americans, if anything, are fickle and trendy (And yes you can say that I am indeed stating that for many H-D owners it is a false status and wannabees who know nothing of what motorcycling is truly about). H-D has that trend market, but mark my words--it will not last. So, H-D should get going because as the saying goes, "When your number one, there's no place to go but down."
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