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Huss 07-25-2002 01:50 PM

Re: Time for Harley to invest in the next generation
My money is on the Goldwing! Both Rider and MCN recently completed long-term, 36000 mile tests on them with glowing praise. Cycle World in the past 6 months just completed a long term test on the Dynaglide Convertible (I think), well, long term is a bit of a stretch seeing that they may have just passed 10,000 miles. They had the usual stuff from the new, improved Harley, oil leaks, electrical failures and the instrument panel MELTING!

As for the alignment problem that a reader mentioned, part of the problem was that there was not a SINGLE Harley dealership that could make the bikes ride straight. So either they are unaware of instructions in the owners' manuals (highly unlikely) or there is a problem. Instead of discounting the article in MCN, try reading it first .

KPaulCook 07-25-2002 02:40 PM

Re: Time for Harley to invest in the next generation
My counterpoints.[*]. In 10 years current 20-35 years will not automatically buy cruisers like some mindless salmon that has to spawn .[*]The TL1000 engine was great, marketing sucked, the bikes suspension rear shock sucked.[*] Ducati 90 degree liquid cooled twins seem to sell OK Like Bill Clinton would say "Its the economy er engine stupid. "
[*]It's persumptious to assume that Harley will inherent a market when they become middle aged

luvmyvfr 07-25-2002 02:55 PM

longride has turned into the KPaulCook of Old!
First: longride, I wish you could just let it all go, you're an intelligent person, let the sportbike crowd deride the cruiser crowd and vice-versa. You're not going to change anyone's ideas with references, statistics, personal experiences or condecending "my $hI+ don't stink" attitude, even if you are right!. Sure, I can see defending your self if someone make an incorrect personal comment about you but jeez, you've responded to almost every comment on the board, and you're coming off sounding like Kpaul did before JB slammed him and made him his biaaatch. Oh, and Kpaul, I enjoy your posts so much more now that youÂ’ve changed, but earlier, I was hoping youÂ’d break your fingers and never be able to type again.

Second: Everybody - "The big 4" makes great motorcycles. "The Motor Company" makes great motorcycles. "The Italians" make great motorcycles. "The Brits" make great motorcycles. "The Americans make great motorcycles." "The Chinese" make cheap rip-offs of great motorcycles, but maybe someday they'll make great motorcycles too.

Third: None of them are perfect. All of them appeal to somebody, some appeal to all, and each appeals to somebody. There, I think I covered that. Don't say some other bike is better than mine, or mine is worse than some other model, 'cause guess what: I bought exactly what I love, and it's "the best."

Heck, I love to ride my dad's cruiser, my cousins Dual-purpose, my dirtbike (need more dirtbike stuff here...) my roommates old scooter (the thing would do 75!), my sport touring bike, pretty much anything with two wheels and some sort of internal combustion engine.

Lastly: Racing isn't a waste of money, any more than health care is a waste of money (you all gonna die someday), flying to the moon is a waste of money (do you like your GPS, Satellite TV, Cable, Live news feeds from the other side of the world etc.?), or your computer is a waste of money (you can exist without it, people have done it for millions of years). It may be a waste of money for Harley (they'd never win), it may be a waste of money for longride, but that doesn't make it a waste of money, period.


KPaulCook 07-25-2002 03:56 PM

Re: longride has turned into the KPaulCook of Old!
Well said. I really like your last point. Pushing the envelope makes us better.

fwalters 07-25-2002 05:09 PM

Re: Harley reports record second quarter
Geez, enough is enough. Love to ride and ride what you love. I am sick of Harley bashing and "squid" bashing.

It doesn't matter what you ride. It's your attitude that matters. All bikes have their good, bad and ugly qualities. But why in the hell do some of us insist on straping our egos to a piece of metal?

We ride because it's fun. How we acheive our level of fun may be different than the guy on the Ducati or the cruiser, but the goal is the same.

I don't know about you guys but I would own "one of each" if I had the funds. Every bike has its own distinct personality and voice, and the feeling you get from riding different bikes is great. Instead of knocking a Harley or a sportbike, you should hook up with somebody who owns somthing you don't - and try riding it for an afternoon.

It's great to see an American company succeeding in our economy, especially a bike company with a history as rich as Harley Davidson's.

I own and ride 2 sport bikes, a ZX12R and a Honda VFR, but think that Harley has done more than any other manufacturer to keep motorcycling alive in the U.S. It just pains me that they are no longer part of the AMA superbike program, or in the FIM superbike program, they could create alot more enthusiasm for motorcycle racing here in the U.S. if they would develop a viable racing machine.

SlowBear 07-25-2002 09:02 PM

Re: Time for Harley to invest in the next generation

The FL problem wasn't reported by one rider, if I recall correctly this subject holds the record at MCN for most letters and E-mails received one a subject, a large percentage complaining about the problem and the lack of support from their dealer in getting it resolved. Do you consider it OK to build a chassis for years that is borderline unsafe? Do you think it is OK to assemble that chassis so poorly that it moves from borderline to simply unsafe when the customer receives it? I simply can't understand anybody thinking that is acceptable, not in cheap moped, much less in a bike that will cost $20K or more before it gets out the dealer's door. As has been pointed out, every manufacture has problems but I can see any other company being defended for designing and building a bike that poorly. If Honda (or Kawasaki, Triumph, BMW or anybody else) tried that they would be crucified.

As far as the twin cam problem, the point was a response to your statement that HD "Harley at least owns up to a problem and fixes it". In the case of the twin cam problem HD forced their customers to ride bikes with a serious problem and did not fix them until they broke, often stranding HD customers far from home. Several rider wrote to MCN saying they either paid to have their bikes fixed or stopped taking trips until the bike failed and could be fixed under warranty. That is not, in my opinion, "owning up" to a problem. The only thing I can agree with is that BMW looks pretty bad given the number of Harley and Hondas Vs. the number of BMWs on the road.

I'm sorry, based on some of your earlier posts I really though you were a Harley rider who was aware of the rest of the world and not blinded by loyalty to a corporation that seems to have fooled a lot of people into thinking it cares about its customers any more than any other corporation.

Sorry for the mistake,


longride 07-26-2002 03:35 AM

Re: Time for Harley to invest in the next generation
Didn't all those same mags have "glowing praise" for the 97 TL1000 too? It was "Bike of the Year" in more than one. I wonder how a shadetree mechanic like me has my FL in perfect alignment. And since it just passed 15,000 miles I guess the oil leaks and melting should have started already. Articles and people are quite often wrong, and I take them with a grain of salt. I am in touch with many, many Harley owners and dealers, so I know what they are. Since I am on many Wing boards still because I owned a 96, I know what the owners are complaining about.

longride 07-26-2002 03:48 AM

Re: Time for Harley to invest in the next generation
Since I own, ride, and service Harleys and other makes for about 25 years, know hundreds of riders, and stay in touch with honest dealers, I would be aware of any current problem long before you would. How many have you owned? I own an 01 FL, the exact model you are talking about. Please don't tell me it is "borderline unsafe", because you don't know what you are talking about frankly. When I bought my new Harley I got about 5 customer forms at different times to fill out as to the quality, price, dealer, looks, condition, etc. Five of em. That would mean that Harley is very interested in everything about the bike and buying experience. I got none from Suzuki, none from Honda, none from Kawasaki. Not interested. As for being aware, I owned a 97 TL1000 that had clutch slipping problems from the factory, tank-slapping, frame breakage, leaky gas tanks(twice), and bucked like a bronco until I put a $250 power commander on it. That was the "Bike of the Year" in many magazines. I had a 1980 AMF Sportster that had more reliability. So tell me again who has who fooled?

longride 07-26-2002 04:02 AM

Re: longride has turned into the KPaulCook of Old!
First: I was one of the ones that changes KPaul so now you can enjoy his posts! I am not trying to change anyone's mind, just posting as I like. Is that still legal?

Second: I put "perspective" in all the makes and just let people know there is another point of view. If you don't like that, it doesn't bother me, and I wil post anyway.

Third: Yep, I have neer said any "type" of bike was better than another. Where have I posted such?

Fourth: It's a waste of money for a company to race what they don't produce. Harley doesn't make a sportbike so why race one? Whick of the big four race flattrack? None. Why? Waste of money for them. Oh, by the way, motorcycle racing has nothing to do with health care, flying to the moon, or computers. Thanks for your interest.

PsychoBueller 07-26-2002 06:06 AM

Re: Harley reports record second quarter
The V-Rod does the quarter in around 11.3-11.5.

My Cyclone does the quarter in the mid-high 11's as well.

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