V-Rod Recall information

[john]

nah, no disrespect, but they could not have heard it for that long, sportbikes (as they are now) have only been around for about 20 years though. And in the rest of the world, they have indeed sold more than cruisers.



And, when the K model first came out, they had a 390lb 90 hp race version available to the public (its in the big harley davidson history book)...SOooooo, that means in the last 50 years the sporster has gained over 100lbs, and lost half its power. Today's sporster is not even a sportbike by the standards of 50 years ago.





So, yes, i hear you that this argument has been made before, but i am just saying that only recently has there been a change in the market to warrant this, a change, or rather a shift that in earlier times was not present, and so did not force harley to change.



And a big part of me thinks i am right in part because HD is actually starting to make designs that ARE close to sportbikes. So no matter how long the argument has been around, Harley is already listening.

[luvmyvfr]

Rod,



I have to agree with you and longride. I've been watching motorcycles for a few years now (I'm just a young'n) and for the past 5 years or so, Harley seems to always be at the top with nowhere to go but down. It seemeth me strange that with nowhere to go but down, they keep going up.



John - What's wrong with dominating the class they've "sat" in for 50 years? Do you think horseshoe crabs are unsuccessful for dominating their class for countless millions of years? As long as they do what they do well, there's no shame in being the best cruiser. Also, I don't think they're making excuses for not producing a world class sportbike (they procuce a couple of "world class motorcycles", irrespective of how you define that) as that isn't their bag, baby.



Sure the average age of their buyers is 44. So what? In 10 years the average age could well still be 44 (was the average age 10 years ago 34? That's pretty faulty logic), even if it's 54, don't 54 year olds have money and buy motorcycles? Here's something I've noticed, Older people have more money to spend as they've already acquired the things young people are still paying to acquire. Unless they have a lot of prescriptions to fill...



Harley is adapting to the changing market just fine. I know a lot of guys that ride sportbikes that would love to own a V-Rod. Well, guess what, when these guys turn 44 and have some extra funds lying around, they'll probably buy something very similar that Harley will produce at that time.



Also, I don't think sportbikes are coming into their own, as, for time untold, young men wanted the fastest biggest horse, car, motorcycle, whatever. They probably always will. "Sportbikes" as a genre may be fairly new, but before that people were buying the biggest, fastest standard (or what we call standard bikes now) and before that they were buying the biggest fastest Sportsters. Being on the cutting edge of tech will guarantee the success of a company, but building what a wealthy population wants, will too. I don't think Corvette will bankrupt Chevy any time soon, but I don't think Rolls Royce will be going out of business either.



luvmyvfr

[Poser]

Hey, I am 42. Does this mean that I will be able to afford a Harley in two years? All Right...!

[john]

luvmyvfr, there are all types of markets harley hasnt gone into. Look at some of their history, they have made sportbikes (ok, italian aeromacci's) dirtbikes, cafe racers. all sorts. why do they not open doors back up to these?



But, if you have seen some of the design sketches for some of the V-Rod motor'd bikes, you will see bikes going along the lines of the ducati monsters. Everything i have read says that harley is going to build sportier bikes based off of the V-Rod, this coming from company execs. And even according to them it is because they are going after a younger market.



bear with me here, see if you can follow my logic: harley has had phenomenal success now for several years in a row. Every year, they have expanded production to meet a growing demand. They are trying to meet that demand. Ultimately, they will meet that demand. It may be soon. There is only a limited number of motorcyclists in the world, and only a limited number of those are interested in the bikes harley currently makes. Harley is increasing its capacity to the point where it will be able to meet that demand. SO then what? do they sit there? or do they find other markets?? If they are a company who has shareholders to respond to, you can bet your ass they are going to find new markets. that may be sportbikes, that may be super standards, that may be dirtbikes, who know? But if they wish to continue to be profitable, they will have to go into other markets. 10 years ago you might have been the one that says "they've built air cooled motors for 50 years, whats the shame in that?" Answer: there is none, but look what happened when they built a water cooled one.



And the reason i say sportbikes are coming into their own is because they have become such good all round bikes. They are designed to do everything.



And, tell me, who owns rolls royce now?





Sorry to seem so adamant and long winded, but I really like HD, and wish them to continue their success. it just upsets me that they have nothing to offer myself or a large number of other bikers, nor is there an American company which does. But all that has already started to change.



Good discussion, BTW.

[luvmyvfr]

I think you've discussed and proved my point quite well. As I posted, Harley is adapting to a changing market quite well. They also reign (arguably) supreme in their forte, cruisers. Good for them, they won't go down because they're doing the smart thing and diversifying (sp) their portfolio.



As for sportbikes, I agree, they can do everything. It's like I tell my short co-workers, it's better to be tall, because I can reach the high things better than they, and the low things as well. Sportbikes can go slow and be loud, can be covered with chrome and have the trashy women on the back, but they can also go, stop and turn faster.



Peace,



luvmyvfr

[luvmyvfr]

Lol,



I knew somebody would jump on that one. I of course did not mean to imply that at the age of 44 the standard american motorcyclist has a huge economic boon, but you take my point.



luvmyvfr

[vickersp]

I believe that Harley makes a lot of money because there is no real competition in the segment that they occupy. Japanese cruisers are viewed a look-alikes and are not taken seriously by the cruiser buyers even though they do get good write ups and are good machines (at least according to the guys at MO).



If Harley is making so much money, why don't they give us a better warranty? At least we wouldn't get screwed by being placed into a position where we felt we had to take the $700.00 extended warranty.



If Harley is making so much money, why don't they lower the price of the bikes so that

the average citizen can own one. Why are parts so expensive?



Harley is making a lot of money and riding the crest of their success but is doing so at their customers expense. Harley has kept demand high by controlling production and therefore can charge high prices for the bikes and accessories. I won't even go into the practice of leaving us to the mercy of unscrupulous dealers and vaseline tax.



Harley plays upon American values and the made-in-america theme along with patriotism to create even more demand for their motorcycles. An attempt is made to make us feel bad for buying a foreign product. Yet it is the Japanese, Germans, Brits, and Italians that offer us the better engineering, lower cost, better warranties, and overall a much better value for the money.



I still bought a Harley back when they were not doing so good and were going under. The main reason was they couldn't compete in price, engineering, and value for the money. I remember the problems I had with that bike. We still have the same siutation today.



So, when I hear how much money Harley is making, I can't help but think how they made this money and what they are really giving the customer back for all this success.

[john]

[pplassm]

BD, you're my hero!

[DBEADLING]