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Old 01-22-2002, 10:41 PM   #21
Heronboy
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Default Re: Harley slowing down?

Amen brother.
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Old 01-23-2002, 04:48 AM   #22
mandrake_the_mollusk
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Default I don't think you get it re Sportsters...

The XL is whatever the owner wants it to be, which is why it is a huge seller that fills a lot of gaps in Harley's lineup. I don't think anybody could look at a chrome-bedecked Sportster Custom and say anything but "cruiser" with a straight face. And except for the high-speed vibration problem, you can add aftermarket parts to make it as comfortable as any cruiser under 1000cc. Since "smaller" cruisers aren't about going fast anyway, H-D doesn't consider the vibration thing much of a problem.



A Sportster can also be decked out as an everyday commuter standard or hopped up to be a moderately fast & nimble canyon-carver with a lot more low-end torque than most import sportbikes for the same money. That makes it win the "fun to ride" quotient hands-down even if it would lose a real race against crotchrockets. It is a bike of many colors, both literally and figuratively, and the largest-selling large (over 700cc) motorcycle in the world.



FWIW I'm a Cyclone owner too and had more problems in the first 2K miles than I did with all 3 of my post-AMF Sportsters combined, but hopefully that's improving. Big Buells are among the few bikes on the planet so wonderful to ride that you're willing to overlook a few problems (Ducati$ are kinda like that too but much more expensive) so if Buell can get the QC act together and keep prices reasonable they will do well for H-D.



Rumors abound re the major changes in the Sporster lineup but IAL will not occur before 2004. The 03's are sure to be a sellout because of the anniversary year THEN they may need a vastly improved bike to keep the volume up. Funny none that few of the posts here have mentioned that 2004 will be the year that tells the tale for H-D. Dealers are not at all worried about the 2003's which will all be dubbed centennial models --some have waiting lists for their entire allocation already.
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Old 01-23-2002, 08:06 AM   #23
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Default Re: Harley slowing down?

What was the problem that left you on the side of the road twice?
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Old 01-23-2002, 08:34 AM   #24
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Default Conflicting reports?

I guess what MO has reported could be a bit misleading. It directly conflicts with this:



January 18, 2002

Harley-Davidson, Inc. announced record sales and earnings for its fourth quarter

and year ended December 31, 2001. Revenue for the quarter was $894.4 million

compared with $756.2 million in the year-ago quarter, an 18.3 percent increase.

Fourth quarter diluted earnings per share (EPS) were 39 cents, a 26.8 percent

increase compared with last year's 31 cents. Revenue for the full year was $3.36

billion, compared with $2.91 billion in 2000, a 15.7 percent increase. Net

income for the year was $437.7 million, a 25.9 percent increase versus last

year's $347.7 million, while diluted EPS for the full year were $1.43, a 26.4

percent increase compared with $1.13 in 2000.

"The year 2001 was our 16th consecutive year of record revenue and income, in

spite of the weaker global economy," said Jeffrey L. Bleustein, chairman and

chief executive officer of Harley-Davidson, Inc. "Worldwide retail sales of

Harley-Davidson motorcycles in the fourth quarter were strong with 12.9 percent

unit growth over last year."


In addition to strong

demand for our traditional products, we also successfully launched our new

performance cruiser, the V-Rod. In late November, we began shipping V-Rod

motorcycles to our dealer network. Dealers and customers alike were anxiously

awaiting this innovative new product which has received acclaim from industry

experts worldwide."

"Even though the world is experiencing difficult economic conditions, fourth

quarter retail sales of Harley-Davidson motorcycles and progress in expanding

our motorcycle capacity have given us the confidence to increase our production

target to 258,000 Harley-Davidson motorcycles for 2002," said Bleustein. "We

will continue to manage our business for the long-term while carefully

monitoring the motorcycle market and other near-term indicators."



According to the Milwaukee Business Journal, Harley-Davidson shares have gone

up 44 percent over the year and are up nearly 23 percent since the September

11th attacks. In contrast, the S&P 500 index is down about 11 percent over

the year and has gained only about 4 percent since the September attacks.</p>



Since there have been no other quarterly reports, I wonder where the pessimistic news was?
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Old 01-23-2002, 02:13 PM   #25
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Default Re: Harley slowing down?

Concerning H-Ds fiscal reports: I just hope they're not using the same accounting guys that Enron did.
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Old 01-23-2002, 09:12 PM   #26
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Default Re: Harley slowing down?

I think harley sales peaking is a result of three factors really in that there is a finite number of people that will only ride harleys in the first place and can afford them, most of those people probably already have harleys, in that vein, your looking at a demographic of 45 and older as I saw on a recent visit to the H D shop in tacoma, I like superglides myself and might even buy one when I wear out my Bandit, but I sure won't be paying the 3000 over msrp I saw on the tag . someone thats not a total freak about Harley's is going to wonder why Japan can make and sell bikes that will out perform HD in just about any objective criteria and sell for msrp, and with a slowing economy that price tag is going to be more of an issue than HD dealers care to admit, case in point, lots of people want a lex but drive fords; yer basic economic triple whammy there i'm thinkin; tends to flood the market with lots of nice used bikes though when the rubbers move on to the next fad d'jur.
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Old 01-27-2002, 09:08 AM   #27
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Default Re: Harley slowing down?

Well, I'm a new subscriber, but here's my two cents worth: Harley's have become rolling works of art. In the process, they now cost as much as collector artwork. Is the demand going to collapse? Depends on their targe market. If they are aiming at folks who want function first, ahead of show, then I would say the decline has already begun. If they are marketing to folks who want a showpeice, then as long as those people have the wherewithal to pay, the demand will continue.



For myself, after many long hours of examination and thoughtful contemplation, the beauty of the Harley and its "resale value" was outweighed by the competition. My vote is for the new Yamaha Warrior and that's where my money is going.



Oh and one more thing. For those who say that I'm buying a "foreign" bike, let me tell you that the distinction between Harley and Yamaha, domestic and foreign respectively, is certainly more of a blur than many people would like to think. Both are corporations. Both are owned internationally. Both sell worldwide. Yamaha has a U.S.A. company that DICTATED the design of the new warrior to the engineers in Japan. That's right: Americans told the Japanese designers what would and would not be part of the new Roadstar Warrior. I think that the resulting bike is pretty AMERICAN!



Again, just my humble opinion.
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Old 01-28-2002, 05:37 AM   #28
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Default Re: Harley slowing down?

The problem that left me on the side of the road twice was fried voltage regulators.
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Old 02-04-2002, 04:11 PM   #29
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Default Re: Harley slowing down?

...gee, Folks, I just do not know....my name is not "Spider," but I did buy a 1985 Low Glide new (FXRS) that I still have...and I also bought a 2001 Electra Glide "Deluxe" (Standard)...and I have a bunch of tattoos...but my hair is short...but on the other hand I used to work at an "engineers" job...even though I was not a "real" engineer....



...and, I hear for February, HD is giving $500 rebates when you buy a new big twin...what is confusing to me, is that I can work on my old bike but the new take computer hookup stuff...yea, I have probabaly bought my last Harley...is there a 45 flathead out there for sale?? ...oh yeah, the new V-Rod is awesome and one of my friends here in Idaho is getting one out the door for $18,000 plus sales tax...I guess I really do not know what is going on...!!@#$%
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Old 12-06-2002, 08:21 PM   #30
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Default Re: Harley slowing down?

Talk about killing the goose that lays the golden egg! Harley dealers will have no one to blame but themselves if the bottom falls out of this market. Talk to any Harley owner and try to find even one who doesn't feel that their dealer has taken advantage of them. With the unbelievably lucrative aftermarket sales that they enjoy, it is hard to justify the price gouging they engage in on bike sales.
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