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Old 11-17-2008, 06:02 PM   #11
longride
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The exact same thing was said of Chrysler in the 80's; big cars, lots of debt, heavy UAW contracts, but I let some of my friends talk me out of investing. It's the 80's all over again. You gave me some excellent reasons to get in. Buy on bad news.
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Old 11-17-2008, 06:21 PM   #12
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The exact same thing was said of Chrysler in the 80's; big cars, lots of debt, heavy UAW contracts, but I let some of my friends talk me out of investing. It's the 80's all over again. You gave me some excellent reasons to get in. Buy on bad news.
I believe Ford is a good bet for long-term investment. GM, not so good. And this is NOTHING like Chrysler in the '80s - GM is far more ponderous and huge, with F'n GIGANTINORMOUS overhead that hasn't one thing to do with producing cars.............

They owe more money that probably 85% of the World's Nations (not combined, of course).
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:29 AM   #13
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They will get out. Just watch.
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Old 11-18-2008, 07:45 AM   #14
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Iaccoca's chutzpah and the Mitsubishi engined K platform is what pulled Chrysler out of the grave, well that and Ronnie Rayguns. Other than that it is looking like the ancient 80's as far as job loss and a tanking economy, we even have the Ruskies saber rattling again..I don't think Harley will need a tariff this go round though LOL. Hopefully Obama can inspire the same kind of flag waving that Ronnie could and rally the great unwashed..
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:37 AM   #15
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That's all we need, a little 'Buy American' stuff going round and all will be well!
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:01 AM   #16
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If the feds would get out of the way of "helping" and the BIG 3 would nut up and declare bankruptcy they would come out winners. If any of you are UAW employees please don't let my statements offend you personally. The UAW killed the American Automaker. It's that simple. Knowing that EVERY car and truck has an extra $1600 tacked on to it because the union's demands for healthcare and retirement need to be met you may not think this has an adverse affect of the consumer but you'd be wrong. UAW employees can make $71 an hr vs the foreign competitions $41 an hr. BMW, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai/Kia, Mercedes all make money and take care of their employees. But the UAW Thugs demands on US automakers strangles the ability for the manufacturers to adapt to changing industry demands. The UAW makes the BIG 3 pay for unproductive employees. What a load of shyt! Why is it that ANY company should be forced to pay for nothing?
If we would allow the BIG 3 to file bankruptcy then all those UAW contracts would cease. This would allow them to renegotiate all aspects of contracts and start fresh. Does it hurt? Yes. It should hurt. Sorry for all you retirees, but better to renegotiate than to be bought entirely by a foreign automaker and be SOL. On the other hand, GM and Ford are weighted down by Brands they don't need. GM should sell anything that isn't derectly related to the North American production lines. GM should immediately sell off: Daewoo, Suzuki (they just did), Holden, Hummer, Opel, Saab and Vauhall. Ford should sell off: the rest of Mazda, Volvo and Jaguar (think that may be sold off). Not to mention the finance companies- GMAC (Ditech is an anchor) should be sold along with FOMO Credit. Once you get the house in order you tell your execs that they don't make bonuses until profits are made. I'm not saying limit exec pay. Just don't reward failure.
Ford and Chrysler should be paired up and use a common platform from Fords front-drive cars and Chrylers rear-drive cars. GM should turn Chevy into the Econo brand/ Pontiac into the performance band/ Cadillac into the luxury brand. Buick should go away for low sales volume.
Every VP or higher should take a 5 yr salary reduction of 10% and every line worker's max pay should not exceed the going rate of their foreign line worker's pay. And for God's sake- please take Viagra off the meds list. What a colosal waist of millions of dollars. If you can't afford the full price of the script then don't buy it you a$$es.
What gives me the right to whine? My grandfather was in the cast and moulding business in Detroit from the 1930s to the 1990s. The last 10 yrs he was in business the UAW demands simply made it unprofitable. The man worked his entire life in the industry. Made millions of dollars and in the last ten years he lost so much money that he sold off everything. Closed plants. And eventually when he died we had to move Grandma down here because the cost of keeping her in her home was more than the money curve would allow. Now, out of that all that money she has less than $300k in investments to keep her happy until she dies. Now, I'm not complaining. I never saw any of that money my entire adult life and for that my lifestyle has been quite meek. But knowing that the man was one of the American Elite and his legacy completely died is unbelievable. I've met everyone from John DeLorean to Lee Iacocca. And with the exeption of DeLorean these were all great men in the Auto/Industrial world. My grandfather will be remembered by only a few in this business, but should be remembered by all because of the things he accomplished for the auto industry. In the end it all leads back to the UAW. Yep- I'm a little bitter about that. The UAW Thugs ruined the American Auto business and it's time to pay the piper.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:04 AM   #17
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"If we would allow the BIG 3 to file bankruptcy then all those UAW contracts would cease."

From what I have read this statement is not true. The only way the contracts would cease is to close the doors and then reopen as a non-union shop and hire from scratch. Bankruptcy will not save them from this.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:19 AM   #18
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That's all we need, a little 'Buy American' stuff going round and all will be well!
I'm right there with you. And we need to do something about companies shipping jobs overseas so our workers have to compete with workers making pennies an hour while they live in slums with open sewers and have a life expectancy of 50 years. I'm all for bringing the rest of the world up, but not at the expense of bringing our country down to 3rd world levels.

These F'ing MBAs that only think quarter by quarter EBITA and EPS need to be rounded up and put into the rice paddies for a couple of years. Along with the corporate execs who've been making obscene pay (in my company's case $187 MILLION BUCKS A YEAR for the Pres) while the value of our company dropped by 3/4.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:34 AM   #19
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I'm right there with you. And we need to do something about companies shipping jobs overseas so our workers have to compete with workers making pennies an hour while they live in slums with open sewers and have a life expectancy of 50 years. I'm all for bringing the rest of the world up, but not at the expense of bringing our country down to 3rd world levels.
And what is the solution?

Look at Detroit. Detroit north average Salary is $75 per hour. Detroit South has an average Salary of $42.

And then there is the corporate tax rates. Higher taxes and and higher wages/benefits equals jobs going over seas.

When you mention lower corporate taxes people complain about "big Business". When you mention wages you get the unions complaining.

Did you know that UAW workers get 96% of their wages paid for TWO YEARS AFTER they get laidoff? All paid for by the auto company.

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Old 11-18-2008, 10:50 AM   #20
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Chapter 11 Federal Bankruptcy Protection allows for the termination of any and/or all Contracts union or otherwise. I'm not saying they will terminate, but the law certainly allows for it. Ask Sachi if I'm right.
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