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Old 11-22-2002, 04:48 AM   #41
longride
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

"Most sportbikes arent offensively loud till above 6k rpm. Add in tall gearing and if they do romp on it they are about 3 blocks away within a few seconds."



You are kidding with the 6k rmp thing right? The race exhausts many put on are loud at a fast idle. And in a city area you are 3 blocks away from what? You are just annoying people a little farther away is all. Being loud is loud. Doesn't matter that you are pissing off people in a different area.





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Old 11-22-2002, 05:14 AM   #42
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

In written comments submitted to the EPA on Nov. 20, the AMA also stressed that the proposed rules should continue to allow for the installation of after-market products, and allow owners to work on their own motorcycles.



This is the most worriesome thing in the article. How many here are aware that the EPA is actually proposing the outlawing of all owner maintenance? Yes, even oil changes. (Someone might throw their old oil in the landfill, so everyone must be punished.) You would be required by law to take your vehicle to an approved licensed maintenance facility.



They've even tried to outright ban all cars older than 1975. Fortunately a lot of congressmen and senators are themselves classic car owners and deep-sixed this one (for now).



Another proposal is to design the computers on cars to put the vehicle into a "limp mode" if any pollution parameters fall out of a narrow range. This means that if your check engine light comes on your car will suddenly be unable to go over about 50MPH and you will have to take it to a dealer immediately. In this case it could be a sensor has quit working, but the car is not actually polluting. A very common occurrence. So far the industry has dodged the bullet on this one, but the EPA never gives up.



The ultimate purpose is to put us all on buses. Then we untrustworthy subjects, er I mean citizens will be "safe" and free from "mischief".



Personal freedom makes governing a nation so difficult, doesn't it?
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Old 11-22-2002, 05:22 AM   #43
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

We are the "little guy" because of our own doing. Large masses of unorganized individuals(motorcyclists) get stomped on. Large masses of organized individuals(gun owners & AARP) get their way. When you can bring money and voting clout to the table, you have an even chance at beating the BS regulations and laws that will directly affect your interests. In life you usually never get what you want, but what you deserve.
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Old 11-22-2002, 05:29 AM   #44
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

The real point is fairness. You can divide the motoring public into small enough classes and declare that any one of them are "a drop in the bucket". Should Ford Excursion owners claim that their trucks are being unfairly regulated since they only contribute a tiny amount to nationwide pollution? Motorcycles are, per mile dirtier than cars. Sure there are fewer of them but so what?

As for your prediction that performance will fall someday, the only time that has happened was when the idea-bankrupt American auto industry did rediculously foolish things to their dinosaur 60's muscle cars to get them to pass emmissions standards designed to keep the population of LA and other similar cities alive. Foreign carmakers and eventually the Americans found effective solutions to make horsepower without wasting 1/2 the gas you put in the tank. Go drive a Vette or a 300zxtt and tell me how performance suffers so from the EPA.

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Old 11-22-2002, 05:36 AM   #45
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Default KPaul is right!

I just realized KPaul is right. Us "trailer trash" should just go along with the program and nod approvingly at all laws and regulations. Why fight it? Let's all live better together the government way! I'm sure if I turn in my guns, stop riding dangerous motorcycles, never exceed the speed limit, don't smoke, don't drink, eat only healthy foods, excercise every day, have safe sex, shun all movies or books with violence, sex, or bad language, and restrain myself from ever doing any dangerous or sinful acts I will live a happier and much more rewarding and fuller life. If I could be KPaul's neighbor, it would only add to the pleasure of said life. So if THIS scenario isn't reason enough for fighting for all you are worth, nothing is.
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Old 11-22-2002, 06:11 AM   #46
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

Night-time? For what like 5 more months. Man I would not like too there.



Have fun, take care,



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Old 11-22-2002, 06:12 AM   #47
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

Motorcycles solve traffic and transportation problems, as well as getting far superior gas mileage. Can the Ford Excursion owner say that? Didn't think so. Actually Ford Excursion owners CAN claim more resources used for mfg., more gas burned, more pollution spit out, more space taken for almost no real advantage than any other vehicle made. Most people have common sense to solve the big problems before the tiny ones. Lawn mowers and snow blowers pollute more in one hour than a car does all day. Any regulations on those? Why not? Because they aren't worth it. By your argument, they need to meet emissions. Cars and trucks are a much bigger problem. Fix that and the rest will be easy.



As for your performance argument, lets compare apples to apples. The 60's and 70's muscle cars could be bought and worked on by anyone. They were cheap, fast, easy to maintain and rebuildable. Your Corvette costs $60,000 and can only be worked on by a factory trained mechanic. the cars people can afford perform like shyt. That's why 60's muscle car prices are going through the roof. Affordable performance. End of story on that one. Don't you just love those $700 tune ups when they replace a couple "sensors" that go bad? I don't want a 2 wheeled car. If you do then go buy a GoldWing.
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Old 11-22-2002, 06:42 AM   #48
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

Hopefully, I've bought my last one. Cheers!
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Old 11-22-2002, 06:43 AM   #49
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

I'm with you on this, even though (or maybe because of the fact that) I am probably one of the worst offenders.



My Ducati is far too loud for use in populated areas, and it is loud at all rpm. Fortunately, I live in a rural area far from any city, but I cringe when I do have to ride through a populated area.



I personally like the sound of loud pipes -- in an appropriate setting (drag strip, race track etc) -- whether on a built flathead ford, small-block Chevy, V12 Ferrarri, Harley or sportbike, but in the wrong setting, they just annoy people, make enemies and draw more attention from the police.



On my Ducati, it seems that much of the noise is actually intake noise -- the only way to get any power in the upper rpm range on the 2-valve Ducs (at least the carburated ones) is to remove the top of the airbox. Even with stock pipes, this made a huge increase in the noise level. Of course, the Ducati Performance full race exhaust system didn't exactly quiet things down much. Sure did help power though.



One "advantage" in my rural area -- the loud pipes seem to frighten the deer away. Maybe in this context, loud pipes DO save lives
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Old 11-22-2002, 06:48 AM   #50
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

Gosh, you must be right. That degree in economics from a school with an notoriously conservative/monetarist point of view must have swept away all ability to think rationally, and left me a hapless stooge of the liberal press. Oh yeah, and I guess that MBA in strategy and competitive decision making was a complete waste of time, not to mention the years of private sector management experience. All of that trouble could have been avoided had I only read an ideologue like Sowell!



Oh wait, I did....
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