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Old 11-22-2002, 03:08 AM   #31
sanchin
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

I had an idea 20 years ago and still think it should be explored. Basically the whole USA should have a decreasing pollution target for personal vehicles. Let's say the measure is co2. Translate the total co2 emmission for the whole country into gallons of gas and then divide by the number of licenced drivers. Each driver is then given the ability to purchase that much gas over the course of a year. If someone doesn't want or need their full credit, they can sell them on the open market. Once their credit is used up that person is all done. This rewards people who ride motorcycles, bicycles, busses, and efficiency in general. It punishes folks who insist on driving gas hogs, boats, etc... What do people think ?
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Old 11-22-2002, 03:21 AM   #32
fizzchem
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

Your premise is based upon your assertion that a government regulation is a business opportunity. That's the kind of economic thinking that went into failed business and empires worldwide.



Historically that story is inaccurate, btw. The Arab-Israeli conflict on 1967 lead to ridiculous U.S. policy on oil, namely price caps by Nixon that lead to shortages of oil. Who would have thought that price controls lead to shortages?



In the 60s and 70s cars did not run like crap; it was called the musclecar era for a reason.



Here's the problem. This regulation has not undergone any cost/benefit evaluation. Statistically speaking, motorcycles contribute little to pollution problems nationwide. This is based upon emission indicies and population and miles ridden of motorycles. In effect, this is regulation for the sake of regulating. Governments being arbitrary and stupid is why this country rebelled from England was founded in the first place.



As for people being mad at SUV drivers, think about two things: The first is that three of the best selling vehicles in 2001 are pickup trucks, two holding the top two honors for a total of 2,000,000 vehicles. Pickup trucks make up 37% of the market, a majority being considered large (66%). By way of comparison, large SUVs only make up 8% of the total truck market. If you want to reduce pollution consider regulating all trucks, not just SUVs. The second is that by imposing standards on SUVs because you don't like them and don't want to see them on the road will not be the result of the regulations. Automobiles with more stringent regulations have been getting bigger, not smaller.
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Old 11-22-2002, 03:24 AM   #33
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Default Re: Cry me a river...

Effective at what? Reducing pollution by 0.00001% Shouldn't governmental efforts be better used elsewhere?



If a robber comes into your house and steals your money, do you let him take your furniture too, because after all, he's in your house anyway?
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Old 11-22-2002, 03:26 AM   #34
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

Cruisers seem to be making noise for the sake of making noise, not for the performance.



Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.



Freer flowing pipes on a cruiser with proper jetting does increase the performance, just like it does on a sportbike. Both are substantially louder. Your excuses don't change the fact that sportbike guys put on louder pipes than necessary for the purpose of "look at me, I'm noisy" just like the cruiser guys. And their pipes are loud all along the powerband, not just "above 6K". You probably can't tell any more since your own loud pipes have deafened your own hearing.



Certainly the handful of horsepower gained on a sportbike serves no purpose anywhere but on the track since you can't use anywhere near the bike's stock potential on the street. And not 5% of these loud sportbikers are going to any track, since there's not one within 400miles of where I live.



By the way I do find overloud pipes irritating, whatever kind of bike sports them. I just don't have this cruiserphobia that makes me distort reality.
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Old 11-22-2002, 03:36 AM   #35
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

Forget what you learned in college. It is mostly Keynesian crap designed to fool people into supporting insane govt spending. If those professors actually knew anything about real economics they'd be millionaires, not college professors.



All costs eventually fall upon the consumer. Every single one. All taxes, all social security contributions, all fees and regulatory costs fall onto the consumer. All those multimillipn dollar civil suits are paid by us, not the deep pocketes companies.



Anyone who tells you that "business pays" is fibbing to you.
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Old 11-22-2002, 03:37 AM   #36
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Default Re: Excellent Post

'Nuff Said.
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Old 11-22-2002, 03:38 AM   #37
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

It's called rationing. As a kid I experienced it during WWII.

1) Evading it becomes the principal national pastime

2) Crime gets better organized to efficiently distribute illegal fuel ( better than prohibition!)

3) The richer you are, the less you need to worry about it. The poor go to jail.

4) Tripling fuel economy overall is technically feasible right now without hybrid solutions, which can multiply efficiency by 5.



Rationing sucks.

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Old 11-22-2002, 03:42 AM   #38
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Default Re: Another reason why I shouldn't renew my membership.

Well, "ol' chum" you said I was better. I said as a demographic, "trailer trash" like me that don't wear "helments" could spell, are more educated and make more money than you superior Japanese bike owners that wear "helments". No brag, just fact. Don't like it? Ask me if I care. It was your conclusion that I was "better", not mine. Obviously, logic isn't your thing either. "Because this, then that" is a common error in logic, but since your idea of personal worth has nothing to do with education, intelligence, or success you wouldn't understand that anyway. See ya later "ol' chum".
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Old 11-22-2002, 03:43 AM   #39
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

Hey Jmeyn, can I sell ya an "A" card?
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Old 11-22-2002, 03:44 AM   #40
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

They don't like SUVs because that is the current propaganda line carried by the press. SUVphobia is the latest press-created cause-of-the-month. THe PR artists speak and the lemmings line up to jump into the sea.



Did you know that the president of the Sierra Club at the time that the Sierra Club came out against SUVs personally drove a Suburban? You see, these rules aren't meant to affect the elites.

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