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Old 11-21-2002, 12:59 PM   #11
SlowBear
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

LOL!



Maybe record the current bikes and link a .wav file to the throttle?



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Old 11-21-2002, 01:26 PM   #12
granny
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

While I'm in favor of cleaner air, one problem caused by imposing stricter emissions standards across the board would be an increase in the price of entry level bikes targeted towards beginning riders with less disposable income. This may discourage some from starting to ride. One reason that I started riding was because bikes were much cheaper than cars. I might not be riding now if not for that. It's possible that raising the price of entry level bikes will lead to a decline of riders. I guess that would make the safety gestapo happy.
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Old 11-21-2002, 01:28 PM   #13
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

Can't really get on board with the AMA on this one. Seems like a 'personal responsibility' issue, to borrow a phrase from those conservative paragons of personal virtue in Congress. Taking responsibility for the consequences of our actions. Like tailpipe emissions.



I can agree that from a public policy standpoint that coming down on motorcycles probably won't provide the biggest bang for the regulatory buck, but that's no reason to stonewall. Just because the SUV makers get away with it doesn't make it right.



Hey, does anyone remember when Detroit stonewalled on emission regs in the 60's and 70's, built cars that ran like crap and got lousy mileage, then the Japanese figured out how to combine tailpipe emissions, drivability and fuel mileage, stealing big chunks of market share from the big three in the process? Yep, stonewalling pays off in a big way!



Okay, okay, I've over-simplified a bit, but the principle is clear - these sort of regulatory issues create discontinuities that lead to competitive opportunities. Some manufacturers/nations are clever enough to take advantage of those opportunities, others stonewall.
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Old 11-21-2002, 02:05 PM   #14
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Default Why fight it?

The availability of bikes that meet CA 2008 standards at no increase in cost (in fact with 1500 dollar discounts) tends to show that the proposed regs are in line with current technology, and quite reasonable. The goal is worthy, so why not just go along?



When the regs are not reasonable, I'll be on the battle lines with the rest of you.
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Old 11-21-2002, 02:27 PM   #15
nweaver
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Default Cry me a river...

Both europe (Euro 2004 and 200 and CARB (2004 and 200 standards are happening. There is really no sense in the US EPA not following CARB standards, as they are both effective and achievable.



EG, the VFR is CARB 2008 in a 50 state model, and the CBR-600-RR is CARB 2004 in the CA model.



Also, we are already to the point where fuel injection is effectively as cheap (if not cheaper) than carburators. So let the carborators dies.
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Old 11-21-2002, 02:35 PM   #16
granny
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Default Re: Why fight it?

But those kinds of discounts don't apply to bikes like a Honda Rebel. The entry level bikes get more expensive, even after any discounts that may apply. On the otherhand, there is nothing wrong with requiring the RR954 to meet the regs (as it does).
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Old 11-21-2002, 02:54 PM   #17
KPaulCook
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

LOL good one. You could select a different wav file for each day.
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Old 11-21-2002, 03:16 PM   #18
NoKneeDown
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Default Re: Cry me a river...

Aww naw, if the carb dies, how will I play with my bike in the garage?? I can have some serious fun screwing up the jetting on my carbs any day of the week, but if I'm forced to use a computer program mated to a pwrcmdr then I am totally screwed. Plus, I don't own a laptop so I think my mom will be pretty ticked to come home and find the Tbird parked in the den (at least I can tell her Triumphs don't leak anymore Oh well.

I tend to agree with those who are willing to comply, however, I do worry about the aftermarket companies who make a living based on us ditching our stock pipes, etc...what about them?
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Old 11-21-2002, 03:27 PM   #19
NoKneeDown
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Default I figured out the problem...

The EPA is honked off about motorcycle emissions because they just found out the USMC is using diesel sludge to power their bikes.



EPA: "We want the truth on emissions"

USMC representative: "You can't handle the truth on emissions"



then those two marines who were secretly ordered to ride the diesel bikes are dishonorably discharged and the one doesn't understand why because he was just following orders. See, we better comply with the EPA, or it could get messy.
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Old 11-21-2002, 03:46 PM   #20
Vlad
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Default Re: AMA takes the Detroit Line on Emissions

Yeah, we need to clean the air, and I'm certain the manufacturers can meet the standards. However, I would also like all vehicles held to the same standard. Current car tests are done in percentage or PPM, which essentially means that a four liter engine can put out twice as much pollutants per mile as a two liter (assuming the same RPM). Let's see if they can build an SUV that meets the proposed motorcycle standard, which is on a per mile amount of emissions. That would mean that their six liter gas sucking sperm whales would need to have exhaust that's eight times as clean as a 750cc bike.



I am a little worried about the "Detroit line" on anything. Remember they claimed they couldn't meet emissions standards for decades. Honda managed it in two years.



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