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badsac · 03-19-2004, 02:19 AM

It's hard to sell ugly bikes.

Thig · 03-19-2004, 02:24 AM

I don't think it is as much about looks as it is price. For less money you can get better performance from any of the four Japanese companies. That being said, I would still love to have a Ducati.

jfgilbert · 03-19-2004, 02:38 AM

Ugly is in the eye of the beholder.

Weak dollar, generally weak economy in Europe and heavy marketing investment, such as race teams and free services, are more likely to be the causes.

I hope they stick around for a long time, because it would be really sad if our choices were limited to copies of racers, copies of 70's standards, or copies of 20's cruisers.

redlmtt · 03-19-2004, 03:00 AM

No question the current crop of Ducatis are at best challenging. The relative performance levels aren't all that different.

A Multistrada may be a "Good Concept" (though I don't see what's so radical about it besides having a hard seat) but did it have to be so ugly?

bsteff · 03-19-2004, 03:38 AM

I like the Ducs, but the price is way out of line.

BMW can get away with ridiculously high prices (maybe), but Ducati can't. I used to drive a BMW car, but I drive a Toyota now and I don't plan to change. (I also won't buy a Lexus, even though I can afford one.) I like to get value for my money. As long as the Japanese makers, and maybe even Korean and others in the future, deliver dependable nice bikes for a fair price, they will have my business. For background, I am a 55 year old man, settled in life with grown kids, and I can afford whatever I want, including a Harley. Harley doesn't provide enough value for the price either. I also do a lot of my own wrenching. I don't mind working with my hands, but Japanese bikes don't need a lot of coddling like others do. BMW cars are supposed to high on the dependality scale, but my BMW car was constantly needing repairs or adjustments so that was my first, and last, BMW. I loved the BMW performance and fun, but the car's lack of dependability wasn't worth it, even if the price had been cut in half. The Japanese makers have my car, truck, outboard motor and motorcycle business until they stop making dependable, well-engineered, products, including motorcycles, at a fair price.

SparkyBlue · 03-19-2004, 03:41 AM

For the price of a 999R, you can have any of the following

1) an R1, ZX-10R, and GSXR-1000, and they all look better, and perform as well if not better

2) a very nice car or pickup

3) a very nice boat, and a new bike

It doesn't look to good for Ducati from here

P-Ratt · 03-19-2004, 03:47 AM

Face it, Ducati is going to have to find a way to make their (lower &/or mid spec) bikes more price competetive with Japanese machinery. Otherwise, I see them going the way of the dodo. The lust for Italian style and traditions just isn't enough to keep them alive. My excuse for buying a Duc is the same reason I would never buy a HD; I can buy 2 Jap bikes of the same (or better) caliber for the same $$$.

nweaver · 03-19-2004, 03:53 AM

Bike magazine has a horrid track record with ducatis, almost every one they test has electrical gremlins.

ewok1 · 03-19-2004, 05:20 AM

it seems to me they have a positive cash flow. the loss can easily be explained i think by depreciation and currency losses. it's probably more accurate to observe that their margins got squeezed by a weak us dollar.

i don't see ducati as in any trouble.

nweaver · 03-19-2004, 05:25 AM

Aprilia is cheaper, has a nice style of their own, is italian, is much more comfortable, is much more reliable, etc...

Not to mention, some of the current Ducs are real honkers: The multistrada is grossly uncomfortable (in a style which is supposed to be supremely comfortable), the 749/999 is a love it or shove it sytle, etc.

03-19-2004, 02:19 AM	#1
badsac Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 120	Re: Ducati Profits........Or Not It's hard to sell ugly bikes.

03-19-2004, 02:24 AM	#2
Thig Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 54	Re: Ducati Profits........Or Not I don't think it is as much about looks as it is price. For less money you can get better performance from any of the four Japanese companies. That being said, I would still love to have a Ducati.

03-19-2004, 02:38 AM	#3
jfgilbert Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 29	Re: Ducati Profits........Or Not Ugly is in the eye of the beholder. Weak dollar, generally weak economy in Europe and heavy marketing investment, such as race teams and free services, are more likely to be the causes. I hope they stick around for a long time, because it would be really sad if our choices were limited to copies of racers, copies of 70's standards, or copies of 20's cruisers.

03-19-2004, 03:00 AM	#4
redlmtt Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 27	Re: Ducati Profits........Or Not No question the current crop of Ducatis are at best challenging. The relative performance levels aren't all that different. A Multistrada may be a "Good Concept" (though I don't see what's so radical about it besides having a hard seat) but did it have to be so ugly?

03-19-2004, 03:38 AM	#5
bsteff Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2	Re: Ducati Profits........Or Not I like the Ducs, but the price is way out of line. BMW can get away with ridiculously high prices (maybe), but Ducati can't. I used to drive a BMW car, but I drive a Toyota now and I don't plan to change. (I also won't buy a Lexus, even though I can afford one.) I like to get value for my money. As long as the Japanese makers, and maybe even Korean and others in the future, deliver dependable nice bikes for a fair price, they will have my business. For background, I am a 55 year old man, settled in life with grown kids, and I can afford whatever I want, including a Harley. Harley doesn't provide enough value for the price either. I also do a lot of my own wrenching. I don't mind working with my hands, but Japanese bikes don't need a lot of coddling like others do. BMW cars are supposed to high on the dependality scale, but my BMW car was constantly needing repairs or adjustments so that was my first, and last, BMW. I loved the BMW performance and fun, but the car's lack of dependability wasn't worth it, even if the price had been cut in half. The Japanese makers have my car, truck, outboard motor and motorcycle business until they stop making dependable, well-engineered, products, including motorcycles, at a fair price.

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03-19-2004, 03:41 AM	#6
SparkyBlue Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 45	Re: Ducati Profits........Or Not For the price of a 999R, you can have any of the following 1) an R1, ZX-10R, and GSXR-1000, and they all look better, and perform as well if not better 2) a very nice car or pickup 3) a very nice boat, and a new bike It doesn't look to good for Ducati from here

03-19-2004, 03:47 AM	#7
P-Ratt Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 77	Ducati's Future Face it, Ducati is going to have to find a way to make their (lower &/or mid spec) bikes more price competetive with Japanese machinery. Otherwise, I see them going the way of the dodo. The lust for Italian style and traditions just isn't enough to keep them alive. My excuse for buying a Duc is the same reason I would never buy a HD; I can buy 2 Jap bikes of the same (or better) caliber for the same $$$. __________________ History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme. It is the nature of deception to not know you are being deceived. For those who fight for it, freedom has a special flavor the protected will never know. FZ1

03-19-2004, 03:53 AM	#8
nweaver Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 458	Don't forget reliability... Bike magazine has a horrid track record with ducatis, almost every one they test has electrical gremlins.

03-19-2004, 05:20 AM	#9
ewok1 Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 312	Re: Ducati Profits........Or Not it seems to me they have a positive cash flow. the loss can easily be explained i think by depreciation and currency losses. it's probably more accurate to observe that their margins got squeezed by a weak us dollar. i don't see ducati as in any trouble.

03-19-2004, 05:25 AM	#10
nweaver Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 458	Actually, I think Aprilia is the bigger threat... Aprilia is cheaper, has a nice style of their own, is italian, is much more comfortable, is much more reliable, etc... Not to mention, some of the current Ducs are real honkers: The multistrada is grossly uncomfortable (in a style which is supposed to be supremely comfortable), the 749/999 is a love it or shove it sytle, etc.