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mikes748 · 03-24-2004, 01:58 AM

With all the talk about looks, let's not forget price and overall cost of ownership. Aprilia has shown you can get the v-twin feel and performance from an italian manufacturer and pay considerably less.

It does look like they are getting a little more real in the price area with the ST3. I imagine we'll see the 999 come down as the market continues to speak loudly.

The monster and the 916 saved ducati in the 90's and there just hasn't been a third act.

SRMark · 03-24-2004, 05:36 AM

"crap flinging monkeys"... Outstanding! And I too am drawn to European design. Especially Ducati. And I's a sucker for older Guzzis and would sell body parts for an early 80s LeMans. Only money is stopping me.

Fangit · 03-24-2004, 08:48 AM

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/d...umentID=195463

Just for the record I don't mind the current 999 styling...

96sp · 03-25-2004, 07:15 PM

you know there is a difference between "I don't mind the design" to the utter shock the 916 put people in when they saw it.. Massimo has more of that magic in his pen let him have a go.. Is South Africa in Italy? No exactly my point. All 999 lovers back to your Azteks..

captainwhoopass · 03-26-2004, 11:13 AM

It's a mix of numbers two and three, and ugly-fied to boot.

captainwhoopass · 03-26-2004, 11:19 AM

"Ostensibly this is done because it benefits them in some way, my supposition is that reaps financial rewards in the showrooms (vide infra below). Thus, people do care, your gratuitous assertion notwithstanding."

Obviously people DON"T care, because if they did, then Ducati wouldn't be in the red while winning all those races, would they?

fireworks · 03-26-2004, 07:25 PM

If Ducati are in trouble, it's because of the price more than any performance problems. A 400 cc will blow the doors off most cars, for God's sake. The price issue is a valid one. There is a reason that there is so many Japanese bikes for sale used. They sell a lot of them.

Don't kid yourself that that something 'special' about a Ducati isn't at least 50% price. They are considered special partially because they are unattainable to the average bike buying public

This doesn't mean that it isn't a damn good bike, but that kind exclusivity doesn't really attract a large portion of the population. Most people that ride are in it for the sheer experience. Obviously $6-11K is the acceptable price for a 'fix'.

You need to sell in order to be profitable, and they are selling to a small portion of the population, based on a 'mystique'. Kill that, as they might have with the 999 and what does that do to your bottom line?

There is a reason nobody seems to do comparo's with Ducati's in them. They'd lose on an apple to apple comparison, as bang for the buck is always in there. You have to go up to the R to get performance that matches or exceeds the Japanese bikes. But you could afford two Japanese bikes for the price, or use the money saved to upgrade the Japanese bike with factory race spec. At this point, there is a very good chance that the Japanese bike will be superior again. For example, Performace Bikes did a comparo between a CBR600RR and a 748S, and they were pretty much matched. How do you think the Ducati 999 would rate against a CBR1000RR, and IMHO the CBR's are nice looking bikes too.

However, like I started out saying, performance isn't the be all and end all. But it's becomes that when the 'cool' bike is thousands more. Basically, motorcycles are recreational items, and most people can't justify spending that kind of money when you can get something that is 'better'.

Ducati's are special, but not entirely in the way that Ducati owners like to think. The chic's might like the Ducati, but they like diamonds better. I wonder how many diamonds I could by with the difference....

kowalke67 · 03-27-2004, 04:19 PM

LOL, diamonds! NO bike can beat a diamond. Well said.

I guess if you are one who can understand people paying $XXXX dollars for a piece of art to sit on a shelf or hang on a wall then maybe you can understand paying and extra couple thousand for a Ducati. Of course bike design is every bit as subjective as artwork so the ugly vs. not ugly will never be resolved.

There are a lot of ways to enjoy a bike. You can look at it and feel joy just knowing that it has 170 hp and can melt asphalt (even though you will probably rarely to never experience those 170 ponies). Or, you can look at it and say that bike looks and sounds beautiful and it's unique (even though I paid out the arse for it).

I guess I could sell my Suzuki and buy her a diamond. But she can go fish if she thinks I'm selling my Duc.

jschacher · 04-17-2004, 11:38 AM

I test rode a 748 and a 749..

i like the look of the 748, but i bought a 749 because it is a much better bike, performance, brakes, elctronic's, etc...etc...

I live in beautiful SYDNEY and where ever i park it people will comment on it's beauty...

And I totally agree; you just can't beat the ITALIAN'S on design's.

I ride my 749 every day, rain or shine and I don't have a single problem so far (6months)

Save riding....

03-24-2004, 01:58 AM	#111
mikes748 Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 7	Re: Ducati Profits........Or Not With all the talk about looks, let's not forget price and overall cost of ownership. Aprilia has shown you can get the v-twin feel and performance from an italian manufacturer and pay considerably less. It does look like they are getting a little more real in the price area with the ST3. I imagine we'll see the 999 come down as the market continues to speak loudly. The monster and the 916 saved ducati in the 90's and there just hasn't been a third act.

03-24-2004, 05:36 AM	#112
SRMark Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,465	Re: Ducati Profits........Or Not "crap flinging monkeys"... Outstanding! And I too am drawn to European design. Especially Ducati. And I's a sucker for older Guzzis and would sell body parts for an early 80s LeMans. Only money is stopping me.

03-24-2004, 08:48 AM	#113
Fangit Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 28	999 Styling Revision??? http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/d...umentID=195463 Just for the record I don't mind the current 999 styling...

03-25-2004, 07:15 PM	#114
96sp Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 40	Re: 999 Styling Revision??? you know there is a difference between "I don't mind the design" to the utter shock the 916 put people in when they saw it.. Massimo has more of that magic in his pen let him have a go.. Is South Africa in Italy? No exactly my point. All 999 lovers back to your Azteks..

03-26-2004, 11:13 AM	#115
captainwhoopass Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,671	Re: Ducati Profits........Or Not It's a mix of numbers two and three, and ugly-fied to boot. __________________ <blockquote> \"I knew it. I\'m surrounded by a$$holes.\" [b][i]Lord Helmet, Spaceballs

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03-26-2004, 11:19 AM	#116
captainwhoopass Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,671	Re: Gratuitous assertions "Ostensibly this is done because it benefits them in some way, my supposition is that reaps financial rewards in the showrooms (vide infra below). Thus, people do care, your gratuitous assertion notwithstanding." Obviously people DON"T care, because if they did, then Ducati wouldn't be in the red while winning all those races, would they? __________________ <blockquote> \"I knew it. I\'m surrounded by a$$holes.\" [b][i]Lord Helmet, Spaceballs

03-26-2004, 07:25 PM	#117
fireworks Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 64	Re: Ducati Profits........Or Not If Ducati are in trouble, it's because of the price more than any performance problems. A 400 cc will blow the doors off most cars, for God's sake. The price issue is a valid one. There is a reason that there is so many Japanese bikes for sale used. They sell a lot of them. Don't kid yourself that that something 'special' about a Ducati isn't at least 50% price. They are considered special partially because they are unattainable to the average bike buying public This doesn't mean that it isn't a damn good bike, but that kind exclusivity doesn't really attract a large portion of the population. Most people that ride are in it for the sheer experience. Obviously $6-11K is the acceptable price for a 'fix'. You need to sell in order to be profitable, and they are selling to a small portion of the population, based on a 'mystique'. Kill that, as they might have with the 999 and what does that do to your bottom line? There is a reason nobody seems to do comparo's with Ducati's in them. They'd lose on an apple to apple comparison, as bang for the buck is always in there. You have to go up to the R to get performance that matches or exceeds the Japanese bikes. But you could afford two Japanese bikes for the price, or use the money saved to upgrade the Japanese bike with factory race spec. At this point, there is a very good chance that the Japanese bike will be superior again. For example, Performace Bikes did a comparo between a CBR600RR and a 748S, and they were pretty much matched. How do you think the Ducati 999 would rate against a CBR1000RR, and IMHO the CBR's are nice looking bikes too. However, like I started out saying, performance isn't the be all and end all. But it's becomes that when the 'cool' bike is thousands more. Basically, motorcycles are recreational items, and most people can't justify spending that kind of money when you can get something that is 'better'. Ducati's are special, but not entirely in the way that Ducati owners like to think. The chic's might like the Ducati, but they like diamonds better. I wonder how many diamonds I could by with the difference....

03-27-2004, 04:19 PM	#118
kowalke67 Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 291	Re: Ducati Profits........Or Not LOL, diamonds! NO bike can beat a diamond. Well said. I guess if you are one who can understand people paying $XXXX dollars for a piece of art to sit on a shelf or hang on a wall then maybe you can understand paying and extra couple thousand for a Ducati. Of course bike design is every bit as subjective as artwork so the ugly vs. not ugly will never be resolved. There are a lot of ways to enjoy a bike. You can look at it and feel joy just knowing that it has 170 hp and can melt asphalt (even though you will probably rarely to never experience those 170 ponies). Or, you can look at it and say that bike looks and sounds beautiful and it's unique (even though I paid out the arse for it). I guess I could sell my Suzuki and buy her a diamond. But she can go fish if she thinks I'm selling my Duc. __________________ \"Wait, I think I just -- Yea, I just had an idea.\"

04-17-2004, 11:38 AM	#119
jschacher Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1	Re: Ducati Profits........ugly or not I test rode a 748 and a 749.. i like the look of the 748, but i bought a 749 because it is a much better bike, performance, brakes, elctronic's, etc...etc... I live in beautiful SYDNEY and where ever i park it people will comment on it's beauty... And I totally agree; you just can't beat the ITALIAN'S on design's. I ride my 749 every day, rain or shine and I don't have a single problem so far (6months) Save riding....