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Old 12-07-2002, 04:43 AM   #41
MrDeadeye
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Default Re: Loud Pipes Cost a Life?

Patton was looking for trouble. What kind of guy tells somebody to keep their engine quiet at a stoplight, then gets so pissed off when the biker makes a rude remark that he has to follow and bump the bike with his car. Then, when he gets out of his car to confront the biker he just happens to be packing heat in case the biker threatens him. It's amazing he lived to be 62.



I wonder what type of bike Chapman was reving at the stoplight. What kind of pipes?
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Old 12-07-2002, 04:44 AM   #42
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Default Re: I'm gonna go out on a limb here...

I have a neighbor who has a dresser. I believe the pipes he has on it are Vance & Hiines. They have glass pack straight through baffles, much like the can on my sport bike.



His bike has a beautiful sound. It can be heard, but all the glass pack soaks up most of the obnoxious frequencies that pass through straight pipes, leaving a not all that quiet but still pleasing deep sound, much like a muscle car with glasspacks.



While technically illegal, I doubt anyone would get in a fuss about the sound of his bike. He has the option to go light on the throttle and it burbles along, with a deep thump that is audible without annoying. When it gets on it, it roars pretty good and sounds so much better than a straight pipe bike does.



As it is properly tuned, it makes more power too, I'm sure. It is a pity. A properly set up Harley has such a beautiful sound. That concept is lost on many riders.
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Old 12-07-2002, 05:08 AM   #43
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Default Re: Loud Pipes Cost a Life?

Sorry, but your excuses for altercations don't wash. It could be pipes, the bike, your attire, or maybe just nothing. Road rage is getting very common because now in the US we need to solve every problem with violence for anything we percieve as an annoyance or insult. People shooting and stabbing each other on the road for minor fender benders or maybe just being cut off is very common. I read a nice story on Yahoo where one guy shot another because he said he had a fat butt. Loud pipes are no more a provication that loud talking or a kid crying or about 1000 other things that may "annoy" people. Check out the kids sports where fathers are killing and maiming each other because of a bad call or a percieved insult. To confront someone becuse you don't like their behavior is the provication. Since we really don't know if the pipes were too loud, or just too loud for this guy, I would say the aggressor was the driver. I was involved in an incident with a maniac truck driver years ago that tried to run my friend and I off the highway for no apparant reason. We were not speeding, nor were we running anything but stock Japanese motorcycles. My friend slowed to give him a piece of his mind and was shot at, and luckily missed. We still don't know what made this guy do this. Was it foreign motorcycles? Was it any motorcycles? Damn if I know. I can tell you that idiot drivers are more commonplace than loud pipes, but I don't run around confronting them. Imagine if I threw a handful a ball bearings at every car that cut me off or pulled out in front of me. Who is wrong then?
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Old 12-07-2002, 05:38 AM   #44
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Default Re: Excellent Post what if the reversed happened. Would the biker get a break

That's an interesting point, the guy on the bike was obviousley a dip-***** with an attitude problem, but arguably if a car driver yells at you at a stoplight, follows you, then bumps your bike when you stop, it seems you'd be in fear for your life, and would have every right to plug the son-of-a-*****. The car driver got off way to easy, I think,, The lesson would be 1.] Don't go out of your way to be an *******, 2.] if someone asks you not to keep revving your bike right next to their ear, say sorry, and stop, 3.] Don't be stupid enough to pull over and try and get burly with someone whose already pissed at you, and 4.] Own a bike that's fast enough to get away from some hick in a pick-up.
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Old 12-07-2002, 05:42 AM   #45
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Default Re: Loud Pipes Cost a Life?

I know that crime victims deserve sympathy (posthumous sympathy, in this case), but I'm having a hard time working up sympathy for the dearly departed. Yes, the guy who shot him was a jerk for bumping the guy on the bike and continuing the confrontation. But based on the account given, the guy on the bike was acting like an ass****, and he was the one who started the personal physical assault that led the other guy to defend himself with a gun. If both were still alive I think both should go to prison, and my vote would be that the guy on the bike serve longer time.



Idiocy knows no limits. I'm only surprised it didn't happen in California instead.



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Old 12-07-2002, 08:03 AM   #46
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Default Re: Loud Pipes Cost a Life?

There is a small percentage of riders who are inconsiderate and give us all a bad name. This is unfortunate. However, there always has been and always will be those people in ANY demographic. Anyone who would judge an entire group by the behavior of a small percentage falls into that select group of idiots themselves. While I'm all for people taking full responsibility for thier actions, we have to look at the larger picture here. Could the rider have behaved differently and avoided the confrontation? Maybe. But that doesn't change the fact that the driver totally lost it and broke the law first. (Maybe his mommy never tought him the sticks-&-stones song)Blaming the rider is like saying "Well, that guy should've known better than being in a gang neighborhood, so it's his fault be got shot." I think not.
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Old 12-07-2002, 08:10 AM   #47
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Default Re: Loud Pipes Cost a Life?

I would consider ramming a bike with a car the 'starting of the personal physical assult'
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Old 12-07-2002, 09:24 AM   #48
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Default Re: Loud Pipes Cost a Life?

Striking the bike may or may not have been assault, depending on whether the biker was on it at the time. If the rider was on the bike I agree that striking the bike with the car was likely felonious assault. But it was certainly an even greater escalation for the biker to approach the driver directly, grab him by the shirt and, under force and face to face, threaten a 62-year-old man with physical injury.



We don't know the relative ages or sizes of the two men, but if the biker was considerably younger and/or stronger a good case could be made that the 62-year-old driver at that point reasonably believed he had no recourse to defend himself except to shoot the man holding him by force and threatening him with bodily harm.



Count it up: Regardless of the predicate acts, the biker unlawfully held someone by force and threatened him with immediate physical harm. In every state I know of that is grounds for use of deadly force in defense.



Like I said, in my view both are guilty of something, both deserve some time in the pokey, and were I the judge I would have given the biker at least as much time as the driver. When the driver struck the bike the biker could have -- SHOULD have -- refrained from retaliation and instead called the cops. He instead chose to escalate the violence, commit assault and battery and threaten even greater immediate harm, all of which, depending on the fine deetails, are probably greater crimes than what the driver did.



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Old 12-07-2002, 09:35 AM   #49
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Default Re: Just a question, why doesn't the AMA ...

The AMA has no business in this because this is not about motorcycles per se. It was two hotheads colliding and their stupidity leading to injury. The biker was not exactly innocent, he just ended up being topped by greater force in the chain of escalation he himself helped perpetuate. I'm certain the AMA has more than enough sense not to jump into something like this.
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Old 12-07-2002, 12:39 PM   #50
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Default Re: Fuct Wayne, Indiana

What about littering?
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