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Old 11-20-2000, 07:13 AM   #11
Colorado_F4
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Default Re: Howto: Take Action on US Land Closures

Sorry, but you're ignorant.



First, your assertion that hikers and bikers leave trash because they need to eat: Just because someone eats and drinks does not mean they throw the food wrapper or the gatorade bottle onto the ground. I hike and bike a lot, and most everybody I hike & bike with not only wouldn't think of leaving trash behind, we actually will stop and pick up trash and put it into our pack and throw it out later. When was the last time you got off your motorcycle to pick up some trash? And when was the last time you saw a hiker or mountain biker leak oil over the trail?



Second, the "so-called" erosion. All that's needed is a fire, hurricane, nuclear explosion, some guy to drive thru the forest in a tank, etc. Who cares? The fact is that bikes cause erosion (motorized and non-motorized). So do hikers. Just because there are things out there that would cause more damage doesn't mean we should ignore erosion. I'm not saying that means nobody should ever ride. I'm saying we should take it into account. Try not to lock up the back wheel and skid around (that causes more erosion). Some land would be more sensitive to erosion than others so it would make sense to restrict bikes from some areas. If you don't admit that your activity is impacting the land, you sound pretty ignorant.



Plant life thrives on CO2. So what? They don't thrive on hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide, and motorcycles spew out plenty of that, too. In case you care (doubtful), the CO and HCs contribute to global warming, smog, reduced visibility, and generally dirty air. These are scientific facts.



The closures are not a political agenda for people who want to feel good about themselves. They are motivated by people who actually give a crap about the future of the land and the air and the water. People who want the land not to be destroyed so that 500 years from now people can still enjoy it. People who want clean air and clean water not just now while we're alive but in the future as well. People who not only care about enjoying recreational activies themselves, but also want to protect the land, water, and air for people who haven't even been born yet. Believe it or not, some people do care about things besides themselves.



You would do better to try to actually understand the motivation of an environmentalist rather than just ripping everything they say and trying to come up with excuses so you can think that there really isn't a real problem, as long as you can continue to ride your precious motorbike.



Accept that your recreational activity of choice has some negative side effects, and do what you can to minimize these side effects. And at least understand why these side effects might piss some people off, especially when you deny their existence or make excuses why it doesn't matter.
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Old 11-20-2000, 07:20 AM   #12
Colorado_F4
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Default Re: Howto: Take Action on US Land Closures

Actually I thought the guy was making some pretty damn good points. And here you go with "well but it's not as bad as wars and exploding valcanoes so it must be ok."



"As if motorcycles did any damage." You are kidding right? Or are you really stupid enough to think that motorcycles cause no harm to the air, land, water, and wildlife? This is the kind of attitude that will get the motorbikes banned on all the public land. Open your eyes.
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Old 11-20-2000, 07:42 AM   #13
Colorado_F4
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Default Re: Howto: Take Action on US Land Closures

Guys, I got news for you, it's not the big bad government who decided they don't care about you. The government is taking their cue from the American people, as they are supposed to do. Like it or not, there are a hell of a lot more environmentalists in this country than dirt bike riders. Popular opinion is turning more and more towards trying to protect the wild and unspoiled lands that we still have. People are realizing that if something isn't done, it may be too late, and soon there won't be anyplace where you can go to "get away from it all".



The best way to keep dirt bikes allowed on trails is for dirt bikers to start caring about the environment too, and showing it. Come up with compromise plans so you still get to ride and the concerns about pollution, erosion, etc. are not ignored. The more you act defiant and basically say "screw you" to environmentalists, the more they'll do the same back to you...
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Old 11-20-2000, 01:39 PM   #14
Colorado_F4
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Default Re: Howto: Take Action on US Land Closures

I assume you meant motorcyclists, not motorists. I did a quick comparison check. The AMA has 270,000 members (as listed on their website). The Sierra Club has "over 600,000 members" (as listed on their website).



Sure, this doesn't prove that there are more environmentalists than motorcyclists, because not all motorcyclists are AMA members and not all environmentalists belong to the Sierra Club. So maybe, as you say, environmentalists just have a big mouth and they exercise that by joining these groups and giving money to them.
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Old 11-20-2000, 02:16 PM   #15
Colorado_F4
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Default Re: Howto: Take Action on US Land Closures

Come on, Squid, you can do better than that. Just because you can't see the damage, it's not there? "The damage is in your mind," you say.



I assure you I have better things to do than dream up non-existent problems. In fact, I used to not really think air pollution was much of a problem. So I did some research. I will share some of it with you.



CO2 is beneficial to plants. I won't deny that. However, that's not the whole story. CO2 is also a greenhouse gas (as you pointed out). So are several other gasses that fuel-burning vehicles emit. Greenhouse gasses are contributing to global warming. In the long run, the negative effects of global warming would far out-weigh any positive effects of some extra CO2 for the plants. This information is from the EPA website (http://www.epa.gov/globalwarming/faq/fundamentals.html). Some of you might dismiss it outright because it comes from the EPA. Sorry, but I'll trust scientists who make this stuff their life's work over someone who says "i can't see any damage so it's in your mind."



Fuel-burning vehicles also have other negative effects. They emit oxides of nitrogen (NOx) and volatile organic compounds (VOC). This causes smog and unhealthy air (for plants, animals, and humans). To learn more about this see http://www.epa.gov/oar/oaqps/gooduphigh/ and also http://www.epa.gov/otaq/04-ozone.htm



A little education would do us all some good. Denying that there's a problem doesn't mean there's not a problem.



I also did some research a while back on trying to figure out which pollutes more: a car or a motorcycle. Strangely enough the motorcycle companies did not want to share their data with me, but I eventually got some data from the government. It turns out that in general, motorcycles pollute a LOT more than cars (typically 10x as much, I recall). Obviously some bikes are better than others (fuel injection: good). I'd be happy to dig out the numbers on that stuff if anybody cares.
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