Go Back   Motorcycle Forum > Motorcycle.Com General Discussion > Motorcycle News > Old News > Buell News

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-11-2004, 07:16 AM   #81
pdad13
Founding Member
 
pdad13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,754
Default Re: Excellent

KP, your incredible propensity for butt-smooching is beginning to put you back in my good graces. If you don't say something stupid soon, I may have to apologize for calling you all those nasty things.



Buz, help me.
pdad13 is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links Remove Advertisements
Motorcycle Forum
Advertisement
Old 06-11-2004, 07:21 AM   #82
Buzglyd
Founding Member
 
Buzglyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,904
Default Re: The modern engine predicament and...great job

Many accuse H-D of not giveing Buell the high-tech motor he needs to make this bike great but how do we know that's what Buell really wants. He's stated in at least one interview that he will never build a liquid cooled motor because he believes air-cooling is superior.



If that's the case then his only option would be to open up the V a bit to get more revs like a Ducati Monster. But then air-cooled L twins already exist don't they?



I think he's just doing things his way and he will succeed or fail based on what he thinks is right rather than what some moto-journalist or squid thinks.
Buzglyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2004, 07:38 AM   #83
johnnyb
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,597
Default Re: The modern engine predicament and...great job

also bear in mind they've never marketed them as racebikes at all, but as Ultimate Streetfighters (which makes it doubly impressive that the thing got 7th or 8th whatever at very fast Rd. America FX race last weekend.)

For street use, give me a big engine with lots of bottom end every time. maybe cause i'm an old time hot-rod guy. How often do you wind your bike up to 12000 whatever rpm on the street? Just like people did with detroit cars in the day, you take your Buell and put on the race kit or whatever, and you have the moto equivalent of like a Hemi Cuda. With a chassis more advanced than anything else in the world.
johnnyb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2004, 07:41 AM   #84
pdad13
Founding Member
 
pdad13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,754
Default Re: The modern engine predicament and...great job

That's exactly my point. We assume that Eric must secretly be lusting for the funds to develop a liquid-cooled V-5? How could he not, right?



Well, maybe he's not. And maybe he has a good reason. After all, how many of us here are engineers that can even begin to really grasp what he's talking about? I'd guess not too many.



That being said, I've read/heard E.B. say the exact same things that you've referenced. You must admit that at least some of it smacks of P.R.



The apathy at the H-D dealers towards Buell is so thick you couldn't cut it with a jack hammer. They don't even really understand the bike. This is some indication that H-D is not entirely behind Eric. You could argue that this is a dealer problem, but I'm sure that if H-D told them to get on the stick, they'd hop to.
pdad13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2004, 08:12 AM   #85
johnnyb
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,597
Default Re: The modern engine predicament and...great job

well, y'know, if they got the recognition they deserved you wouldn't be able to pick one up for cheap would you? for me, going against the herd is yet another cool Buell advantage.

I think EB is just a guy who likes to build cool motorcycles. It was a huge challenge to make a bike as good as the XB using the engine at hand, and I'd say those guys did a fantastic job and I can't believe the mainstream US press hasn't gotten more behind Buell.

And now he's done the XB, who knows what might be next? Supercharge the existing engine? All-new l-c big twin? Dunno. I like air cooling, too, no radiators and hoses, and with enough displacement plenty of power. Whatever, Buell is the most innovative manuf. in the world right now IMO; nothing they build next would really surprise me.
johnnyb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2004, 08:22 AM   #86
sarnali
Founding Member
 
sarnali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,415
Default Re: Volume, volume, volume...

You'd have more luck finding out if the Da Vinci code is true than finding out internal financing arrangements at a major corporation. I work for the defense branch of Large Chicago Based Aircraft Corporation and funding is an absolute black hole. Nasa, USAF and "internal sources" pour money in one end and finished products come out the other, that's about all you'll find out.

I read recently that none of the big 4 Asians are making a profit on sportbikes, it's all prestige and one-upmanship. Their money comes from cruisers, atv's, parts and accessories. Harley has been making money hand over fist for the last 15 years, it looks like some has trickeld down to Buell. What they need is more dealer support or even seperate shops so the Buell line isn't treated like an ugly step child.
sarnali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2004, 08:34 AM   #87
sarnali
Founding Member
 
sarnali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,415
Default Re: The modern engine predicament and...great job

My take is that Buells are built around Hi-Po Sportster engines, The whole thing revolves around making a Sportster engine haul ass. If you take away the Sporty motor then you've gutted the whole personna of the bike.

Whatever appeal the bike has derives from the combination of built Sporty motor-innovative frame design synergy. Take that away and you might as well buy a used VFR or SV650
sarnali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2004, 09:22 AM   #88
Buzglyd
Founding Member
 
Buzglyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,904
Default RPM

I'm still trying to get used to the frantic MV vs. my Duc. It's a totally different style of riding for sure.



You might want to check a recent issue of Car and Driver (either last month or the month before). There was an interesting article about a Chevy engineer talking about how they believe the pushrod V-8 is a superior layout for the Corvette.



He cited the fact that a pushrod V-8 has much smaller exterior dimensions than a double overhead cam V-8. The DOHC gets its HP via RPM and the pushrod V-8 gets it via displacement.



The 5.7 litre Chevy is smaller overall (which allows them to place the engine where they want it for best handlilng) than Porsche's 4.4 litre V-8 in the Cayenne.



Could this be what Beuell is up to continuing to use the pushrod V-twin?
Buzglyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2004, 09:23 AM   #89
Buzglyd
Founding Member
 
Buzglyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,904
Default Don't worry

His moments of decency are short-lived.



You've been warned.
Buzglyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2004, 09:36 AM   #90
pdad13
Founding Member
 
pdad13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,754
Default Re: The modern engine predicament and...great job

Agreed on all points.



Except, I really like the idea of Buell. If they can't sell enough units at an acceptable margin to justify the recent investment and their existence in general, H-D will eventually pull the plug. Sure, I might be able to get a good deal on one, but that spells trouble for the company. I know they have a very small staff (something like 50 people), but they seem to be spending a significant amount of money in advertising/marketing and development of the XB line must have cost a bundle. Are they selling enough to make a profit or at least break even? I wonder.



Also, I would argue that by increasing sales, and therefore production, prices should go DOWN. Although, with H-D's pricing philosophy (which has been very successful) they may not see it that way. H-D essentially owns the cruiser segment in this country so they can charge just about whatever they want. Buell will be playing in a very different arena. They may be able to charge a bit of a premium, but they're going to have to be price competitive with the 600 SS class. If the $2K discounts become common, that's a step in the right direction. But the fact that the XB12 has an $11,000 MSRP leads me to believe that they don't want to discount that steeply and that they're being forced to in order to turn inventory. This is also not a good sign.



As I posted above, Buell, at its current production rate, probably doesn't have favorable economies of scale. So they probably want every penny of that $11,000 if they can get it. To improve E.O.S., they'll have to build and sell more bikes. That probably means cutting pricing. Which probably means "hello, red ink," at least for a time. Being that H-D is a Wall Street darling, I doubt they'd accept this strategy.



So the question is if Buell can exist as a niche manufacturer. I'm not sure they can. Then again, I'm not a finance guy, so someone tell me if I'm off base here.



Anyone have any other information?



pdad13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off