Motorcycle.com

johnnyb · 05-03-2004, 10:51 AM

Right, it is so "down on everything" that it beat like 20-some inline four late-model japanese bikes. I think it's only the ENTIRE POINT you seem to be overlooking. On a tight track like Sears (or most fun roads) the low-rpm urge off the corners is exactly why the Buell did well. And the fact it can turn inside any of those bikes thanks to super-stub advanced chassis.

johnnyb · 05-03-2004, 11:00 AM

u ever tried to get top 10 in an AMA national there cruiz? with three factory Hondas in it? i didn't think so.

nweaver · 05-03-2004, 11:13 AM

Remember, formula xtreme is pretty much anything goes mod-wise, with Buell probably giving lots of support but most of the japanese manufacturers just not caring as much (Supersport and Superbike are more important).

I did a demoride on the buells while at the races (both the 12R and 12S). ICK ICK ICK. The tuono was the same thing but so much nicer.

It's amazing the myth of torque (and HP for that matter), waht counts is the trust curve for each gear. With the Buell's only having a revv range from 2.5k to about 6k/6.5k RPM, compared with 3k to 11k for the Italian, the Buell's engine was less flexible for lazy road riding (although the tuono was geared too high, IMO)

nweaver · 05-03-2004, 11:15 AM

The aircooled twins are, IIRC, limited to 1L.

1.2L would just be ridiculously large (double the displacement of the I4s). Also, if it was 1.2L, you could bet that there would be at least one privateer group running Boxter-Ss, just for the heck of it.

maladg · 05-03-2004, 11:28 AM

Here is to hoping this is the beginning of a trend....more success for Buell cannot be a bad thing. The more the merrier!

Perhaps more successes from Buell will lead in the long run to more sporty bikes w/o the "monkey humping a football" ergos, too.

maladg · 05-03-2004, 11:30 AM

On second thought, "monkey football" ergos did not quite get it....what I should have said was " more sporty bikes without the passive, receptive ergos".

johnnyb · 05-03-2004, 11:32 AM

FORMULA XTREME

1. Regulations for Formula Xtreme multi-cylinders and twins are the same as the 2003 Superbike multi-cylinder rules with the following exceptions:

A. Displacement range for multi-cylinder four-stroke motorcycles is reduced to 450cc-600cc.

B. Twin-cylinder, liquid-cooled four-stroke motorcycles displacement range is 595cc-750cc.

C. 850cc-1350cc air-cooled four-stroke twins are permitted with unlimited modifications (only applicable eligibility requirements, homologation and general equipment standards apply).

D. Stock throttle-body assemblies are required on multi-cylinders and liquid-cooled twins. Throttle-body assemblies include the following controlled components:

1.

Intake bore castings and associated housings

2.

Butterfly valves and shafts

3.

Fuel rails

E. Fuel injectors may be replaced with aftermarket units provided the original mounting locations are maintained and no modifications are made to the throttle-body assemblies for injector fitment. The total Â*number of installed injectors must be the same as originally produced.

1.

Secondary butterflies may be securely fixed in the open position.

2.

All other fuel injection system components may be modified or replaced with aftermarket items.

F. Stock intake air boxes are required with only the following Â*modifications permitted:

1.

Air filters, internal flap-type valves, sensors and vacuum fittingsÂ*may be modified, replaced with aftermarket parts or removed. Any holes in the air box to the outside atmosphere or to the inside of an intake tube resulting from the removal of components must be completely sealed from incoming air. All incoming air must pass Â*through the original, unmodified air box inlets.Â*

2.

Ram-air tubes or ducts may be modified, replaced with aftermarket parts or removed. If tubes/ducts are utilized, they must be attached to the original, unmodified air box inlets.

3.

Velocity stacks may be modified, replaced with aftermarket parts, or removed. The only modification permitted to allow alternative velocity stack fitment is the removal of internal debris deflectors.

G. Stock fuel tanks are required on multi-cylinders and liquid-cooled twins. Fuel fillers, fuel valves and fuel pumps may be modified or replaced with aftermarket units. Tanks may be modified only to permit the installation of these components.

H. Bodywork may be modified or changed to any aftermarket or custom type as long as "fluid retention" regulations and general equipment standards are adhered to.

I. DOT street legal or street-type tires are not permitted.

J. The minimum weight limit for all motorcycles is 350 lbs.

2. Motorcycle Entry Restrictions

A. Motorcycles entered in Supersport are not permitted in Formula Xtreme. The VIN number or an AMA frame sticker number is used for identification. A Supersport-entered motorcycle can be changed to Formula Xtreme only before the first official practice begins. A substitute motorcycle, not entered in Supersport, may replace a Formula Xtreme-entered motorcycle at anytime during the meet.

B. Damaged frames may be replaced and re-registered as a proper entry under the direction of the Chief Technical Inspector.

Â*

kwh · 05-03-2004, 11:42 AM

If it did well (for suitably small values of "well") then it did so in spite of the engine, surely? A Ducati or Aprilia V-twin motor in the same frame would presumably have done rather better.

Kudos to E.Buell Esq. for designing a chassis that will carry a vintage tractor engine onto the first page of the results sheet. I'm sure the riders will have had their fillings replaced before the next race...

ValkBandit · 05-03-2004, 11:49 AM

if harley holds true to form they will lavish millions on a race campaign, fail miserably, then start their own race league so they can win at SOMEthing. it is very telling that this kind of editorial puffery is ensuing after an EIGHTH place finish.

you do realize, don't you, that

1) 8th out of 32 is NOTHING to write home about.

2) finishing a single race is a much different thing than living with a bike, day in and day out, for years.

it is kind of sad and pathetic that harley insists on soldiering on with the wheezy sporster engine in one of the most advanced chassis in all of racing. it's like bolting a briggs and stratten engine into schumacher's ferrari. maybe somewhere on earth there is a track where the bastard could win, but that don't make it a cool sled.

05-03-2004, 10:51 AM	#12
johnnyb Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,597	Re: Engine, Engine, number (XB) 9 Right, it is so "down on everything" that it beat like 20-some inline four late-model japanese bikes. I think it's only the ENTIRE POINT you seem to be overlooking. On a tight track like Sears (or most fun roads) the low-rpm urge off the corners is exactly why the Buell did well. And the fact it can turn inside any of those bikes thanks to super-stub advanced chassis.

05-03-2004, 11:00 AM	#13
johnnyb Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,597	Re: BUELLS NOT BAD EH? u ever tried to get top 10 in an AMA national there cruiz? with three factory Hondas in it? i didn't think so.

05-03-2004, 11:13 AM	#14
nweaver Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 458	Couple more bits... Remember, formula xtreme is pretty much anything goes mod-wise, with Buell probably giving lots of support but most of the japanese manufacturers just not caring as much (Supersport and Superbike are more important). I did a demoride on the buells while at the races (both the 12R and 12S). ICK ICK ICK. The tuono was the same thing but so much nicer. It's amazing the myth of torque (and HP for that matter), waht counts is the trust curve for each gear. With the Buell's only having a revv range from 2.5k to about 6k/6.5k RPM, compared with 3k to 11k for the Italian, the Buell's engine was less flexible for lazy road riding (although the tuono was geared too high, IMO)

05-03-2004, 11:15 AM	#15
nweaver Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 458	Limits are 1L, IIRC The aircooled twins are, IIRC, limited to 1L. 1.2L would just be ridiculously large (double the displacement of the I4s). Also, if it was 1.2L, you could bet that there would be at least one privateer group running Boxter-Ss, just for the heck of it.

05-03-2004, 11:28 AM	#16
maladg Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Rock throwing distance from Home Despot HQ Posts: 1,141	Re: BUELLS NOT BAD EH? Here is to hoping this is the beginning of a trend....more success for Buell cannot be a bad thing. The more the merrier! Perhaps more successes from Buell will lead in the long run to more sporty bikes w/o the "monkey humping a football" ergos, too.

05-03-2004, 11:30 AM	#17
maladg Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Rock throwing distance from Home Despot HQ Posts: 1,141	Re: BUELLS NOT BAD EH? On second thought, "monkey football" ergos did not quite get it....what I should have said was " more sporty bikes without the passive, receptive ergos".

05-03-2004, 11:32 AM	#18
johnnyb Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,597	wrong again... FORMULA XTREME 1. Regulations for Formula Xtreme multi-cylinders and twins are the same as the 2003 Superbike multi-cylinder rules with the following exceptions: A. Displacement range for multi-cylinder four-stroke motorcycles is reduced to 450cc-600cc. B. Twin-cylinder, liquid-cooled four-stroke motorcycles displacement range is 595cc-750cc. C. 850cc-1350cc air-cooled four-stroke twins are permitted with unlimited modifications (only applicable eligibility requirements, homologation and general equipment standards apply). D. Stock throttle-body assemblies are required on multi-cylinders and liquid-cooled twins. Throttle-body assemblies include the following controlled components: 1. Intake bore castings and associated housings 2. Butterfly valves and shafts 3. Fuel rails E. Fuel injectors may be replaced with aftermarket units provided the original mounting locations are maintained and no modifications are made to the throttle-body assemblies for injector fitment. The total Ânumber of installed injectors must be the same as originally produced. 1. Secondary butterflies may be securely fixed in the open position. 2. All other fuel injection system components may be modified or replaced with aftermarket items. F. Stock intake air boxes are required with only the following Âmodifications permitted: 1. Air filters, internal flap-type valves, sensors and vacuum fittingsÂmay be modified, replaced with aftermarket parts or removed. Any holes in the air box to the outside atmosphere or to the inside of an intake tube resulting from the removal of components must be completely sealed from incoming air. All incoming air must pass Âthrough the original, unmodified air box inlets.Â* 2. Ram-air tubes or ducts may be modified, replaced with aftermarket parts or removed. If tubes/ducts are utilized, they must be attached to the original, unmodified air box inlets. 3. Velocity stacks may be modified, replaced with aftermarket parts, or removed. The only modification permitted to allow alternative velocity stack fitment is the removal of internal debris deflectors. G. Stock fuel tanks are required on multi-cylinders and liquid-cooled twins. Fuel fillers, fuel valves and fuel pumps may be modified or replaced with aftermarket units. Tanks may be modified only to permit the installation of these components. H. Bodywork may be modified or changed to any aftermarket or custom type as long as "fluid retention" regulations and general equipment standards are adhered to. I. DOT street legal or street-type tires are not permitted. J. The minimum weight limit for all motorcycles is 350 lbs. 2. Motorcycle Entry Restrictions A. Motorcycles entered in Supersport are not permitted in Formula Xtreme. The VIN number or an AMA frame sticker number is used for identification. A Supersport-entered motorcycle can be changed to Formula Xtreme only before the first official practice begins. A substitute motorcycle, not entered in Supersport, may replace a Formula Xtreme-entered motorcycle at anytime during the meet. B. Damaged frames may be replaced and re-registered as a proper entry under the direction of the Chief Technical Inspector. Â*

05-03-2004, 11:42 AM	#19
kwh Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 58	Re: Engine, Engine, number (XB) 9 If it did well (for suitably small values of "well") then it did so in spite of the engine, surely? A Ducati or Aprilia V-twin motor in the same frame would presumably have done rather better. Kudos to E.Buell Esq. for designing a chassis that will carry a vintage tractor engine onto the first page of the results sheet. I'm sure the riders will have had their fillings replaced before the next race... __________________ Ken Haylock

05-03-2004, 11:49 AM	#20
ValkBandit Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 473	Not bad? Puhh-lease ... if harley holds true to form they will lavish millions on a race campaign, fail miserably, then start their own race league so they can win at SOMEthing. it is very telling that this kind of editorial puffery is ensuing after an EIGHTH place finish. you do realize, don't you, that 1) 8th out of 32 is NOTHING to write home about. 2) finishing a single race is a much different thing than living with a bike, day in and day out, for years. it is kind of sad and pathetic that harley insists on soldiering on with the wheezy sporster engine in one of the most advanced chassis in all of racing. it's like bolting a briggs and stratten engine into schumacher's ferrari. maybe somewhere on earth there is a track where the bastard could win, but that don't make it a cool sled.