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Old 12-01-2004, 06:51 AM   #41
nweaver
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Default The sprint is no longer quite the bargan...

The new ST is no longer quite the bargan: Hardbags are extra, and teh ABS is expensive.



But its still a damn sight better and cheaper than the BMWs.

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Old 12-01-2004, 06:57 AM   #42
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Default Too much group-think, one opinion endlessly parroted

this thread is like the Bush cabinet meeting to work out their Iraqi war plans.



There are better photos over on motorcycle daily and I say the ST doesn't look bad at all.



More power, less weight... I have no doubt that it'll be a really nice riding bike & they'll sell a ****load of 'em.



I just wish I could afford one.







"Munich. The BMW Motorrad product offensive goes into its next round. At the Bologna Motor Show on 02.12.2004, the new travel touring bike R 1200 RT celebrates its world premiere. It will then go onto the market in January 2005. Punctually for the start of the season, the sports touring bike R 1200 ST will also be available on the market as the third model of the new flat twin 'boxer' generation and successor to the R 1150 RS.



The basis for the development of the two new models was provided by the drive train, innovative chassis elements and the modern technologies of the R 1200 GS. Both the new sports bike and the new travel touring bike are impressive with their increased power yet reduced weight. The R 1200 RT offers excellent riding properties and excellent ride comfort. An output of 81 kW (110 bhp) and a road-ready weight of less than 260 kg guarantee supreme performance figures and plenty of riding pleasure both on long and short tours. At the same rated output, the weight of the R 1200 ST is just below 230 kg. More agile and dynamic, the new R 1200 ST especially appeals to the tour rider with sporty ambitions."



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Old 12-01-2004, 07:12 AM   #43
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Default Not even as a simile!

No, tomk2, no!



Don't bring up politics on this forum even as a simile (although the simile wasn't bad).



Things can get off topic faster than you can improve the 1200ST's fairing by riding it repeatedly through a corner slick with spilled diesel fuel.
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Old 12-01-2004, 07:30 AM   #44
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Default Well, OK, it's different...

VWW, you are right.



Even though I personally don't care for the front view of the new ST, and I think the new RT looks an awful lot like the VStrom(emphasis on the "awful"; I've never been a fan of the VStrom's looks although it is a great bike), the look of the new ST is not ordinary. If you're riding a new ST no one will mistake it for anything else.



My beef is this.



When the 916 came out, it was so beautiful that even non-sportbike people were caught up by it. Same for the MV Agusta F4 bikes. To me, the R1100S is similarly striking. New R1100s's are visually identical to the original 1998 bike. And they still look great. None of these bikes looked like anything else when they were let loose on the public.



The people working for BMW are world-class designers. They are talented, well-paid and have first-class design studios. They are supposed to know beauty. They are supposed to be giving us bikes that will be classics, like, for instance, the R100RS (still a bike most of us would be proud to own), not the CL tourer series or the new ST or RT series.



Dang few poeple looked at photos of the 916 and said, "well, maybe it'll look better in person." Almost everyone I know looked at photos of the 999 and said "well, maybe photos don't do it justice." If you gotta make excuses for the way a bike looks in photographs, then it's time to take it back to the drawing board.
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Old 12-01-2004, 07:33 AM   #45
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Default Re: New BMW R1200s, St and RT

That's no toilet, it's a fountain.
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Old 12-01-2004, 07:47 AM   #46
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Default Re: Well, OK, it's different...

I'm not disagreeing with what you say, but there are so many bikes I thought were really gorgeous in photos and were disappointments in person and vice versa. In my opinion, the 916 and MV's did not break new ground, nor did they take many styling chances. They certainly DID get those bikes right from an asthetic point of view, but they were not radical in the way they were styled. They were more of an extension of what we were used to looking at. The 999 was a radical departure from the norm, and it's looking better all the time, although Ducati could have played it safe and just subtly restyled the 916. BMW is taking risks with being very different here, and I don't think they are all that ugly. Like a poster said down below, I think lots of posters go with "group think" and if the first 10 say it's ugly, well then it's ugly dammit! I'm still going to wait to see them in person before casting judgement on looks.
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Old 12-01-2004, 07:58 AM   #47
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Default Re: Too much group-think, one opinion endlessly parroted

"this thread is like the Bush cabinet meeting to work out their Iraqi war plans."



now THAT is an insult. the world-class idjits in the white house have no equal. don't even go there ...
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Old 12-01-2004, 08:23 AM   #48
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Default Re: Well, OK, it's different...

You may be right but judging from past experience I'd venture to guess that the Beemers will be at least as ugly in person as in the photos. It's hard to think of a BMW that wasn't ugly. But then people don't usually buy BMWs for the looks anyhow.



And ugliness has probably become an expected characteristic for BMW. At least their old ugly bikes are still desirable instead of becoming risible like so many old Japanese bikes.
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Old 12-01-2004, 09:35 AM   #50
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Default Re: Well, OK, it's different...

German produts in general are never pretty. Functional yes, pretty no. I just don't think they look as bad as everyone here is saying. I suppose if they REALLY wanted ugly, they could have made it look like the Rune.
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