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ikonoklass · 11-30-2004, 07:12 PM

The salesman I bought my bike from Saturday said the same thing: "If BMW could get the Italians to design their bikes, they'd really have something."

pdad13 · 11-30-2004, 07:30 PM

Apparently, the French really are idiots.

(Huh, you said "vital fluids.")

theDuke · 11-30-2004, 07:32 PM

Say what you will about German design, but Chris Bangle is an American.

Perhaps he's a double agent from General Motors and Harley sent to destroy BMW's stranglehold on the luxury car and motorcycle market?

I had a laugh last summer at the Pebble Beach Concours. Bangle was one of the judges of the event. They were introducing all of the judges, including Jackie Stewart, Phil Hill, lots of auto industry execs, etc. The crowd was politely clapping for all of the judges (and wildly cheering for some of the famous racers). When they introduced Chris Bangle, the crowd went dead silent. I swear it's true. My wife asked me who this guy was. When I explained that he designed the new BMW 5-series and Z4, she laughed with me.

Since then, he's actually been promoted and is now in charge of ALL BMW design including motorcycles, Mini, and more. I guess the problem with the German management is an unwillingness to admit when they've made a horrible mistake.

dan140 · 12-01-2004, 12:14 AM

or like going to an art museum and stealing the toilet...How in the world do they manage to CONSISTENTLY produce such ugly bikes? Their cars are pretty nicely designed and performance wise keep up with the best...strange!

longride · 12-01-2004, 01:54 AM

I guess everyone thinks these bikes are ugly? I get that vibe so far. Most bikes that deviate from the "norm" of styling get branded "ugly" right out of the box. I think I will wait until I see one in person before I comment on looks. They sure do look different than anything else offered today.

SRMark · 12-01-2004, 02:10 AM

Fairing from Honda/Yamaha and bags from an old Laverda sport tourer. BMW needs to go to MV, pay a whole lot of money and get a good design. Like female Russian weight lifters, BMWs are strong, reliable but not much to look at.

jungkvist · 12-01-2004, 02:35 AM

"Its replacement turns back the hands of time to a spectacular hour." (Wonder what spectacular hour that would be; the Blitz, maybe).

"The general aesthetic of this sportbike is futuristic," (Once again, the future sure ain't what it used to be).

Looks like there's a new philosophy coming out of design schools; one that should be served a cup of Hemlock and forgotten.

This is the sort of thing that happens when you spend too much time hanging out, smoking hash, with effete dilettantes, who are always searching for a new reality and their car keys. What can I say; some things are best observed if you're detached from reality, and your retenas.

I'm sure that somebody considers these sort of things as a Rorschach Test, for the New Millennium. If that's the case, you can put me in Cryosleep, and wake me up when the Bugs are done taking over. Maybe, then, this will all make sense.

jungkvist · 12-01-2004, 02:48 AM

Ya make a good point, but I don't really see how I could justify spending that much money, when a VFR could do the same thing for so much less. Call me "Common", but me and my wallet got a thing goin' on.

blitz · 12-01-2004, 02:54 AM

I drive volvos and ride bmws. I can comment on both.

1. Volvos. Before Ford bought Volvo, they were well designed, reliable, easy to service vehicle. The ONLY things i can't do myself on my Volvos (1987 with 160K miles, 1992 with 100k miles) is A/C (cost prohibitive) and wheel alignment. They're bulletproof, VERY well engineered, and a pleasure to drive. WIth a bit of preventative maintenance, tney won't let you down.

I've needed to buy two special tools. One is a valve depression tool so i can change valve shims, and the other was a bushing tool needed to replace the overdrive / output shaft busing. Total cost was about $50 for both.

2. BMWs. I have 2; a 1971 R60/5 and a 1978 r80/7. I am doing the first "major" rebuild of the R60 this fall. after 80k miles, it needs a bore job, and a valve job. I took the final drive apart, and it shows NO wear. it's perfect. I took the trans apart. It's almost perfect. It may have needed one transmission bearing, but since i have the thing apart, i'll replace them all for $100.

The clutch was perfect.

This thing is unbelievably well engineered. You have to remember that in 1971, a Japanese motorcycle was ready for the trash heap at 20K miles. Not until the Z1 or the Gold Wing did Japanese motorcycles become long term bikes.

With this rebuild, the R60 will be ready for another 100K miles (beauty of synthetic lubricants).

I bough the 1978 R80 last year from its first owner. It needed some transmisson work,

a new drive shaft, and rear wheel splines. It also had 80K miles. Its also ready for another 100K.

Moreover, these old beemers really are beautiful.

I tend to keep things a long time, and service/fix them myself. Try finding transmission gears for your Ninja in 10 years. Try finding a GSXR throttle servo motor in 10 years. You won't be able to. However, I can keep the volvos and beemers until i'm dead.

I'm a dinosaur in this age of mass consumerism.

However, for me, it isn't about how fast i can get somewhere, it's about the trip itself. I can do 600 mile days on either bmw along side my pals on their sport bikes, and arrive at the same time fresher than they are. I need motorcycles, I just don't need the latest and greatest, because the latest isn't necessarily the greatest.

11-30-2004, 07:12 PM	#21
ikonoklass Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 240	Re: New BMW R1200s, St and RT The salesman I bought my bike from Saturday said the same thing: "If BMW could get the Italians to design their bikes, they'd really have something." __________________ Go Hinckley or go Home!

11-30-2004, 07:30 PM	#22
pdad13 Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,733	Re: Here's the gist of it: Apparently, the French really are idiots. (Huh, you said "vital fluids.")

11-30-2004, 07:32 PM	#23
theDuke Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 93	Re: Chris Bangle Say what you will about German design, but Chris Bangle is an American. Perhaps he's a double agent from General Motors and Harley sent to destroy BMW's stranglehold on the luxury car and motorcycle market? I had a laugh last summer at the Pebble Beach Concours. Bangle was one of the judges of the event. They were introducing all of the judges, including Jackie Stewart, Phil Hill, lots of auto industry execs, etc. The crowd was politely clapping for all of the judges (and wildly cheering for some of the famous racers). When they introduced Chris Bangle, the crowd went dead silent. I swear it's true. My wife asked me who this guy was. When I explained that he designed the new BMW 5-series and Z4, she laughed with me. Since then, he's actually been promoted and is now in charge of ALL BMW design including motorcycles, Mini, and more. I guess the problem with the German management is an unwillingness to admit when they've made a horrible mistake.

12-01-2004, 12:14 AM	#25
dan140 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 10	Re: New BMW R1200s, St and RT or like going to an art museum and stealing the toilet...How in the world do they manage to CONSISTENTLY produce such ugly bikes? Their cars are pretty nicely designed and performance wise keep up with the best...strange!

12-01-2004, 01:54 AM	#26
longride Super Duper Mod Man Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Anywhere they let me Posts: 10,484	Re: New BMW R1200s, St and RT I guess everyone thinks these bikes are ugly? I get that vibe so far. Most bikes that deviate from the "norm" of styling get branded "ugly" right out of the box. I think I will wait until I see one in person before I comment on looks. They sure do look different than anything else offered today. __________________ I'm a knucklehead

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12-01-2004, 02:10 AM	#27
SRMark Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,465	Re: New BMW R1200s, St and RT Fairing from Honda/Yamaha and bags from an old Laverda sport tourer. BMW needs to go to MV, pay a whole lot of money and get a good design. Like female Russian weight lifters, BMWs are strong, reliable but not much to look at.

12-01-2004, 02:35 AM	#28
jungkvist Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 955	Re: Here's the gist of it: "Its replacement turns back the hands of time to a spectacular hour." (Wonder what spectacular hour that would be; the Blitz, maybe). "The general aesthetic of this sportbike is futuristic," (Once again, the future sure ain't what it used to be). Looks like there's a new philosophy coming out of design schools; one that should be served a cup of Hemlock and forgotten. This is the sort of thing that happens when you spend too much time hanging out, smoking hash, with effete dilettantes, who are always searching for a new reality and their car keys. What can I say; some things are best observed if you're detached from reality, and your retenas. I'm sure that somebody considers these sort of things as a Rorschach Test, for the New Millennium. If that's the case, you can put me in Cryosleep, and wake me up when the Bugs are done taking over. Maybe, then, this will all make sense. __________________ Yeah, well, you can get up and leave, DEAL WITH IT!

12-01-2004, 02:48 AM	#29
jungkvist Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 955	Re: New BMW R1200s, St and RT Ya make a good point, but I don't really see how I could justify spending that much money, when a VFR could do the same thing for so much less. Call me "Common", but me and my wallet got a thing goin' on. __________________ Yeah, well, you can get up and leave, DEAL WITH IT!

12-01-2004, 02:54 AM	#30
blitz Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 87	Re: Why???? I drive volvos and ride bmws. I can comment on both. 1. Volvos. Before Ford bought Volvo, they were well designed, reliable, easy to service vehicle. The ONLY things i can't do myself on my Volvos (1987 with 160K miles, 1992 with 100k miles) is A/C (cost prohibitive) and wheel alignment. They're bulletproof, VERY well engineered, and a pleasure to drive. WIth a bit of preventative maintenance, tney won't let you down. I've needed to buy two special tools. One is a valve depression tool so i can change valve shims, and the other was a bushing tool needed to replace the overdrive / output shaft busing. Total cost was about $50 for both. 2. BMWs. I have 2; a 1971 R60/5 and a 1978 r80/7. I am doing the first "major" rebuild of the R60 this fall. after 80k miles, it needs a bore job, and a valve job. I took the final drive apart, and it shows NO wear. it's perfect. I took the trans apart. It's almost perfect. It may have needed one transmission bearing, but since i have the thing apart, i'll replace them all for $100. The clutch was perfect. This thing is unbelievably well engineered. You have to remember that in 1971, a Japanese motorcycle was ready for the trash heap at 20K miles. Not until the Z1 or the Gold Wing did Japanese motorcycles become long term bikes. With this rebuild, the R60 will be ready for another 100K miles (beauty of synthetic lubricants). I bough the 1978 R80 last year from its first owner. It needed some transmisson work, a new drive shaft, and rear wheel splines. It also had 80K miles. Its also ready for another 100K. Moreover, these old beemers really are beautiful. I tend to keep things a long time, and service/fix them myself. Try finding transmission gears for your Ninja in 10 years. Try finding a GSXR throttle servo motor in 10 years. You won't be able to. However, I can keep the volvos and beemers until i'm dead. I'm a dinosaur in this age of mass consumerism. However, for me, it isn't about how fast i can get somewhere, it's about the trip itself. I can do 600 mile days on either bmw along side my pals on their sport bikes, and arrive at the same time fresher than they are. I need motorcycles, I just don't need the latest and greatest, because the latest isn't necessarily the greatest.