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Old 03-30-2001, 07:52 AM   #11
djo
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Default Re: Aprilia on the Move to 4-Stroke GP

amen. the only people converting to mille's are those who can't make the payments on their 996s!



put a stock mille on the track against a stock 996 and it's bye-bye mille. not to mention the thing is just plain u-u-ugly.
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Old 03-30-2001, 08:38 AM   #12
888
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Default Thanks

Thanks. Just got back from a ride ... it was cold but who cares! Enjoy whatever you're riding.
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Old 03-30-2001, 09:43 AM   #13
Lincoln
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Default Re: "Open" GP class

wait a minute - you're saying you want a motorcycle that laps as quick as possible, so why limit what kind of engine it can have? why not just give it a size and weight limit. other than that anything goes. for just a few pounds more you could double the present grand prix displacement. how about a 1000cc 2stroke. there'd be nothing that could catch it. not even close
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Old 03-30-2001, 11:39 AM   #14
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Default Re: Aprilia on the Move to 4-Stroke GP

I am a really stupid moron, I apologize for posting here
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Old 03-30-2001, 12:41 PM   #15
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Default Re: In order for Aprilia to be competetive...

Desmo is a Ducati Patent, so no way Aprillia is able to use it.



There are 3 major Italian mc manufacturers:

Aprilia (rotax engines)

Ducati (nothing but desmos)

MV Augusta/ Cagiva (4 cylinder configs)



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Old 03-30-2001, 12:47 PM   #16
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Default Re: Aprilia on the Move to 4-Stroke GP

You'll have to learn that HP says nothing about a bike. High consitent torque in combination with a certain rev range and possible gearbox and sprocket selection says all.

What you want is a massive amount of torque spread over a very wide rev range, and you won't get that out of a low cc bike.



Torque 's got everything to do with engine-efficiency and engine capacity. Just put a 20 valve 4-cilinder 996 vs a 996 desmo 8 valve and be suprised, very surprised.



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Old 03-30-2001, 12:52 PM   #17
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Default Re: Aprilia on the Move to 4-Stroke GP

Its impossible to compare a stock mille to a stock 996. You should at least take the Mille R for that (because of money spend for what you get comparrison) and then it will come close, Ducati beating close.



I'd like to have them both anyway. A 996 to race and a Mille for the road. But I'll have to settle for my FZS600 and that's a corner monster anyway, so what the fook do I care.



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Old 03-30-2001, 01:18 PM   #18
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Default Re: Aprilia on the Move to 4-Stroke GP

Thank you at least one person around here knows what they are talking about. This person got there s h i t straght. Pure genious. I mean just look at this persons e mail address, It says it all.
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Old 03-30-2001, 03:11 PM   #19
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Default Re: In order for Aprilia to be competetive...

Ducati neither invented or has a patent on the desmo system. They own patents on so specifics of their system but that is it. The fact that anybody can build a desmo system and no one else, other than a few nut cases like Al Melling, has since the early fifties should tell you what the engine masters think of the desmo.



The guy above talking about pneumatic valves being complex and saying desmo is a better solution really should learn something about a subject before he posts on an international forum. Anybody in Formula One could run a desmo, nobody has for over forty five years. Instead, everybody runs pneumatics, do you see a pattern?



The only reason Ducati still builds the desmo is marketing, do you really think the developers want to have the poor valve control and extra friction that comes with having a rocker arm on the opening side of the valve train and 16 rocker arms in a two cylinder engine? Not to mention the bulk and reciprocating weight.



Now that Ducati has fair competition (Honda and Aprilia) their bike don't look superior anymore, do they? They still have a great team, strong riders and will do well but they haven't been dominant since the non-desmo twins showed up. They made a big noise over the winter about how getting the narrow head (basically just catching them up to everybody else on porting and valve angles) homologated was going to put them on top. Did anybody see who had the top end in Valencia?



Dr. T thought the desmo was the best system for valve control but he also thought roller bearings, built up cranks and shims were the best way to build a bottom end. If you want to talk about engineering you should really read something besides a Ducati brochure. I don't dislike Ducati, I used to own one and remember it foundly. I do get very tired of people who obviously know even less than me (I am an engineer but not a mechanical engineer) quoting marketing BS as facts.
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Old 03-30-2001, 04:57 PM   #20
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Default Dear Mr God

um, didn't i mention something about using desmodromic valve actutation because they can't afford an extra ounce of weight or complexity? People who respond to posts such as mine should learn to read before they comment. I hereby strip you of the title "Engineer" and crown you ""
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