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Old 04-29-2004, 08:24 AM   #71
nokneedragin
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Default Re: Aprilia - Say it aint so!

Opinions again are not fact. As far as start up sport bike companies, Buell comes to mind afew years ago, Vincent and Norton now. I also don't see the cruiser start ups cranking out the products. More so than sport bikes, yes. The cult following cruisers have is a big draw to base sales off of. But even with that advantage very few of the cruiser (HD knock offs) companies are rolling in money, most seem to be barely making it. So sport bikes don't make profits, Triumph had been increasingly profitable untill the fire last year.

"There are not any financial statements from the Big Four that breaks down by catagory. If you ever looked at one you would know that."

Yes I have looked at financial statements (I hate doing it, but it is required in todays world), thats how I know there are no facts backing up your opinion on sport bike profits (thanks again for helping to make my point

Again, please try to get some facts to back up your opinions.

Its a dead horse catagory for the two of us, we have beaten it down to the ground. But, if you do ever find something published that talks about this issue please feel free to let us MO-rons know about it. Thanks again.
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:19 AM   #72
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Default Re: Aprilia - Say it aint so!

Just to point out, Buell was not a start-up sportbike company. They were financed by Harley-Davidson and run by Eric. Harley now owns them again. I wonder how long Buell would have survived without Harley cash? About 5 minutes is my guess. To use Norton and Vincent as supposed sport bike companies is a pretty bad reach. Neither one makes sport bikes, nor are considered successful. Nice try. Triumph cruisers are their biggest sellers by far. That is proven through numbers. How much money did they make on the 600, and when was the last re-design of the Daytona? Where is the race team? Sportbikes are supposed to race, right? Triumph better stick with what they know before they go on the auction block next. Sportbike startups that compete with Japanese sportbikes are hen's teeth. Keep pretending money is being made in sport bikes, if it makes you feel better. Reality says different.
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:20 AM   #73
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Default Re: again the HD faithfull refuse to admit that change is possible

Check yourself. You are starting a conversation with KPaul. Do so at your own risk.
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:27 AM   #74
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Default Re: again the HD faithfull refuse to admit that change is possible

There ya' go kpaul, sensible advice from some plank-owner GPTB types.

The progression for us GPTB type rider's is standard that you turned into a cafe` racer, then HD chopper that you built yourself, then Sportsters 'cause they're so much fun, then bagger, then factory built sportbike, then sport-tourer then, stock HD, then nekkid hooligan Speed Triple, then sport tourer, then sexy Italian sportbike that ruins whats left of your joints, then cruiser. You don't have to sell one bike to buy another, just add on to the garage.

I'm working my way through list, on "sport-tourer" at the moment.
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:44 AM   #75
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Default Re: Aprilia - Say it aint so!

Todays Tacoma paper had a listing of overall new vehicale quality, the Hummer was last. Not only are they pretentious gas hogs, they're unreliable junk to boot. All that and more for $50k + tax.

I'm glad I bought a mini-van instead of a Yukon Denali or Expedition like I wanted...
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:50 AM   #76
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Default Re: Aprilia - Say it aint so!

Kawasaki makes locomotive's too

( just thought I'd throw that in, Back to you Long...)
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:52 AM   #77
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Default Blowing smoke?

$22 in debt for each $1 in real equity?



Assets $300,000 MILLION (only $7,000 Million of which is Goodwill)



Liabilities $286,000 Million



If you know about "secret" $3 TRILLION in debt that Ford's hiding from Wallstreet, I'm sure a lot of people would like to know.
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:53 AM   #78
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Default Re: again the HD faithfull refuse to admit that change is possible

Except that it isn't ALL about price. If you want a really cheap ride there are plenty of Kimcos and Royal Enfields out there already. Unless they produce an inexpensive bike that is reasonably comparable to the Big Four in performance and build quality, the Chinese will have a tough time muscling in on Japan's turf.



Not that it can't be done, though. Look at the strides Korean car makers have made in the past two years. They used to be just cheap, and they weren't taken seriously by other manufacturers. Now they're cheap and fairly decent, and the other manufacturers are worried about the future of their market shares.
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Old 04-29-2004, 10:00 AM   #79
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Default Re: Aprilia - Say it aint so!

Bruno Taglifiera (?) stated as much in a recent issue of Brit mag. Performance Bike. Because of increased legislation and tightening sportbike market in Europe, Triumph was going to shift their emphasis to the classic and cruiser lines. Their soon to be released Rocket 111 and Thruxton are already major sellers. Triumph is smart enough to put their R&D money where it does the most good, not try to chase a rabbit down a hole competing with the Japanese
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Old 04-29-2004, 10:04 AM   #80
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Default Re: Hellloooooooooo!!!! JB.....???? Anybody home....???????

what are you wearing?
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