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Old 08-11-2006, 07:10 PM   #21
theovenmits
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Default Re: Ducati Superbike Boss Threatens To Quit AMA Series Over Rules

I have a lot of respect for Ducati for their freshman effort in MotoGP - they brought their A game and have done a lot better than Suzuki, Kawasaki or Aprilia ever since the 4-stroke revolution. (and Suzuki wasn't a freshman factory)



But whatever respect I give them for that, I have to take it away for trying to leverage rules to overcome an inferior (as percieved by some) engine design. I mean geez, if your engine needs a freakin' twenty percent displacement advantage, maybe you should change your engine configuration....



Add all this to the fact that Bayliss has an almost insurmountable lead in WSB, and I can't see how anyone can sit through Ducati's whining with a straight face.
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Old 08-12-2006, 02:52 AM   #22
gtburton
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Default Re: Ducati Superbike Boss Threatens To Quit AMA Series Over Rules

I totally agree. Hoewever, would it mean the end of the line for their twins? If they did not win with a four then the end of Ducati?
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Old 08-12-2006, 03:58 AM   #23
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Default Re: Ducati Superbike Boss Threatens To Quit AMA Series Over Rules

Tell Obrien to hit the road!!! OH! This isn't Harley and their whinning? Sorry. I thought this was a proprietary argument.
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Old 08-12-2006, 04:48 AM   #24
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Default Re: Ducati Superbike Boss Threatens To Quit AMA Series Over Rules

WSB, BSB, AMA (and all other flavors of super bike racing classes) is meant as a forum where manufacturers can showcase their production models. In other words, WSB rules need to match what is available on the market; manufacturers should not be producing models to gain advantage from WSB rules.



Ducati should not build a four unless they feel that is the market they want to enter, and I doubt that that is the case. Best WSB/AMA/BSB etc. etc. change rules to allow production bikes to race on even ground.

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Old 08-12-2006, 06:03 AM   #25
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Default Re: Ducati Superbike Boss Threatens To Quit AMA Series Over Rules

It might, indeed, be the end of their racing twins, but it wouldn't be the end of their racing.



One thing that rubs me the wrong way, and I mean really rubs me the wrong way is the emphasis of heritage in a competitive field. For some reason, it seems as if the L-twin design is sacred in and of itself - like it wouldn't be a Ducati if it had four cylinders, this in spite of the fact that it seems to always need help from the rules-making body to compete. Now we know that Ducati is nothing if not competitive, why don't they build a (reasonable) street-legal V-4 and race it, and let the desmo twins go to non-racing markets that really appreciate the heritage of a Ducati L-twin?



I mean seriously - they had to invent a racing series that they could compete in, and they dominated it - now how boring was it when the Championship was won by the factory Ducati rider 90% of the time?
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Old 08-12-2006, 08:21 AM   #26
cgarrison2k6
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Default Re: Ducati Superbike Boss Threatens To Quit AMA Series Over Rules

I agree with bigdx on this one.. the Superbike classes are meant to reflect the market, not to be a prototype class like MotoGP.



That being said, what's wrong with a displacement advantage if it creates parity in the field?



Are you against 4 or 5 valve engines? Is a valve advantage unfair?



Is a 2-cylinder advantage unfair?



I'm not sure why displacement has become the magic number that has to be equal across platforms.



Seems more like weight and horsepower are the key figures to be worried about.
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Old 08-12-2006, 08:30 AM   #27
cheddarlump
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Default Re: Ducati Superbike Boss Threatens To Quit AMA Series Over Rules

Why should the rules change if their bikes aren't competitive anymore? If they are embarassed enough, they'll be forced to make better engines, and all of us MORONS will benefit! Weeeee! Capitalism and a free market RULE!
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Old 08-12-2006, 08:39 AM   #28
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Default Re: How about Desmodishi Street Edition...

You can just as well say their heritige is singles

http://www.bevelheaven.com/gallery-singles.htm



and honda's heritige is V4s.



But Honda didn't try to change the rules to make their bikes more competitive.



Also, its hard to give Ducati too much credit when they are whining about displacement while WINNING!

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Old 08-12-2006, 08:40 AM   #29
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Default Worse, their bikes are competitive...

They are just whining that it costs them too much to keep them competitive!

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Old 08-12-2006, 10:18 AM   #30
cgarrison2k6
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Default Re: Ducati Superbike Boss Threatens To Quit AMA Series Over Rules

Not sure what your definition of better is exactly.. I guess it has to be an I4 clone.



I don't think we'd all benefit much from Ducati going that route. They still would not compete in price with the Japanese.



The rules should change to reflect the market for superbikes. The rules should also allow the field to reflect the diversity that is present in the market.



I'm not sure why anyone wants Ducati to have to spend more money than the Japanese and still be down on horsepower. I wouldn't call it whining, I'd call it trying to survive in a very difficult market.



No one has yet been able to explain why displacement is the one area where all the bikes should have to be equal. Why not number of cylinders, valves, bore, stroke, weight, firing order, frame geometry, etc.? If everyone drove the same bike we'd have a field where no one has any equipment advantage. There's no reason to go this route unless one wants to take manufacturers out of the series, as seems to be the case with Ducati, KTM, Buell, Aprilia, Triumph, etc.
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