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Old 10-12-2004, 04:33 AM   #51
nokneedragin
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Default Re: Rev Limit

Yea, I can see how that extra top end (in RPM and HP) can help. Who knows, Someone with some serious disposable income may get the bug up their but to do a Ducbuell.
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Old 10-12-2004, 04:53 AM   #52
lukam
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Default Re: Buell XB-9R 4th in AMA FX

Go to a motorcycle junkyard and see the disposible jap bikes lined up side by side. Then count the harleys in the same lot....keep looking..... keep looking.....having problems finding the harleys?



jap bikes=disposible



Oh yea, I also know snob sport bike riders that buy a new universal japanese sport bike every year because this one can go 155.2 mph unlike last years that went 153.2 mph even though I never ride over 75 mph



nuff said
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Old 10-12-2004, 05:36 AM   #53
nokneedragin
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Default Re: Buell XB-9R 4th in AMA FX

I actually have seen HDs in boneyards, usually picked clean.

As for my original post, you have said nothing to convince me that one bike is more disposable than another, and yes I do also know riders who buy a new sport bike every year, that was not the point. So in case you missed it:

A bike is only disposable when YOU don't want it anymore.

So, if in your parsect of the galaxy of motorcycles, you equate Oriental manufactured motorcycles as disposable then, my fellow MOron so be it. But stop foisting you humble opinion onto others, as fact. The original poster admitted to having a 13 year old bike of O.M. that does not sound disposable to me.



nuff said
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Old 10-12-2004, 05:57 AM   #54
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Default Re: Buell XB-9R 4th in AMA FX

Well, they are built and marketed as Ultimate Streetfighter, not race bike. but being able to be in the hunt on the track, not the old twins real happy place, should be convincing evidence that they work pretty well, shouldn't it?

See, a 749 Ducati CAN'T be 6 inches shorter and 50 lbs lighter. If it could be, don't you think Ducati would do it? Hey Luigi i just had an idea!!

A buell can be, because that old lump fits. There's more to an engine than top-end hp.
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Old 10-12-2004, 06:15 AM   #55
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Default Re: Buell XB-9R 4th in AMA FX

First off I own three Japanese bikes, none of which are later than 1991. However, there is one factor of the Japanese motorcycle that leads to disposablilty. The cost of a major engine rebuild on most Japanese bikes is so prohibitively expensive that most people don't bother. For example my Magna dropped a valve and destroyed the rear head. The cost of replacing the head, cams (required since there are no bushings), piston set, etc. would have cost me at least $2K, far more than the $1K or so the bike is worth. I managed to find a complete decent engine at a junkyard for $200 which allowed me to keep the bike on the road. Otherwise I would simply have thrown it away.



Most Japanese I-4s will cost in the order of $2K to do a full rebuild since you usually have 16 valves and guides and all the rest to replace. Most people simply don't bother and throw the bike away if there is a major engine repair required to keep the bike on the road.



However the cost of new bikes can keep those old Japanese bikes rolling. I've got a '78 IT175. It'll need a new crank in a couple of years at the rate I ride it. A new crank is $250. However a new comparable bike (a 250 4 stroke) is on the order of $5000 now. I'll be keeping the IT175. Two strokes are better anyhow.



So, while some people do keep breathing life in the old Japanese bikes the extreme vast majority don't. It's usually not cost effective.
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Old 10-12-2004, 06:17 AM   #56
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Default DISPOSABLE BIKES!

Well,



I guess I have offended a bunch of people with my "disposable bike" comment. When I made that statement, I was not refering to the desirablilty of a particular motorcycle, As I happen to enjoy my 91 VFR750, and will probably have it, along with my 86 GSXR750LTD edition for many more years.



I was simply refering to the common Japanese practice of updating or entirely replacing the CBR600F1, F2, F9 etc. every year or so, thus in the process obsoleting the bike in only a year or two. This practice has the effect of never allowing an aftermarket develop for a particular bike, as the owner of the bike tends to move on to the latest/greatest every few years. That is why you don't find 11 different companies making pistons, cams, heads, etc. for the majority of Japanese bikes, as they suffer a disposable or designed obsolesence by the factory, to support new bike sales.



Nothing wrong with this, it just limits the aftermarket support for the bike, thus it's supportable life.



If HD changed its basic design every 2-3 years, the aftermarket would cease to support it with hard parts. Look at the Vrod, there are only 2-3 companies that have developed "Hard parts" (cams, pistons, rods, etc) for it. In another few years, that number will double or triple.



Call it what you want, but product stability is what drives the aftermarket, and allows a 1956 HD to be supported today, as the design went fundimentally unchanged for 30 years.



Nothing against the Japanese bikes, (I love my 1983 XN85 Turbo) but the philosophy of competition demands frequent product updates, and as such, there is very limited aftermarket support, since aftermarket performance is the same cost, or more expensive than "disposing" of the 2 year old bike, and buying the "latest greatest" road burner.



Also, you have to consider the FACT that HD sold more bikes last year over 700cc, (about 280,000) than all of the other manufacturers on the planet combined, and in doing so, did it with 3 basic engines. The TC88, the XL883/1200, and the XB9/12 series.



To put that in perspective, The Honda CBR600 series which is Honda's best selling bike, sells about 25,000 in it's product life of 2-3 years, IF it wins the magazine shootouts.



If you are a piston Mfgr. like JE, are you going to build pistons for a model that has 2,000,000 bikes on the road that use that part, in a market that 70% leave the showroom floor with aftermarket parts already installed,



or are you going to build pistons for a model that has 15,000 bikes that use that part sold over a 2 year period, and only about 300 of those will be upgraded, if you are lucky?



(By the way, the 15,000 -300 number was given to me by Honda Jim in the mid-90's at JE refering to this same conversation about CBR600's)



I hope that this clairifies my statement "Disposable motorcycles."



I did not coin the term, it is simply a consequence of the philosophy of the Japanese manufacturers, and I would not have it any other way, as I love reading the road tests, etc. And, a few years down the road, when the first owner decides to "Dispose" of it, I will pick it up for a song.



Besides, If you still think that straight line speed is what it's all about, and my "Disposable" coment offended you, then you should already know that a Buell is not for you. Leave it for someone who will appreciate it for what it is, and go by the new Super Ninja-GSXR-1387, I will be there to buy it when you "dispose" of it in 2/3 years for a car, or the latest greatest Super Ninja 10,000!



Regards all.
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Old 10-12-2004, 06:18 AM   #57
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Default Re: Buell XB-9R 4th in AMA FX

By the way, If anyone wants photos of my beloved toys, feel free to contact me through motorcycle online with your e-mail address, I send them,



Regards,



VR1000Racer
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Old 10-12-2004, 06:31 AM   #58
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Default Re: Buell XB-9R 4th in AMA FX

"An air-cooled motor is not a reasonable race motor."



Why?
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Old 10-12-2004, 06:37 AM   #59
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Default Re: Buell XB-9R 4th in AMA FX

Excellent. Whyn't you write a story w/fotos and post it, sounds like you have an Exquisite collection my good man. Kudos...
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Old 10-12-2004, 06:39 AM   #60
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Default Re: Excellent Choice.

....and the rest of us have been pointing out for years the fault in your logic, but you just won't listen.



I'd like to see you ride a cruiser to its performance limits on the street. I can guarantee you can't. The higher limits on a sportbike will get you absolutely nothing.
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