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Old 10-11-2004, 12:24 PM   #21
ducatirdr
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Default It was on top once against the 600's. I was there.

6/17/2002

Buell Happy With F-USA Sportbike Win At Loudon



From a press release:



Buell Firebolt Scores first national roadrace victory



Eric Wood Tops Formula USA Sportbike Field at 79th Annual Loudon Classic



Loudon, NH (June 16, 2002) - Eric Wood rode the new Buell Firebolt XB9R to its first national roadrace victory in the Formula USA Honda Pro Oils Sportbike final held at New Hampshire International Speedway. The race was WoodÂ’s first outing aboard the Kosco Buell/Innovative Motorcycle Research Firebolt, and the first appearance of the team in the highly competitive horsepower and weight restricted class.



"This was a great start for the Firebolt," said Wood, of Mansfield, Mass. "We just got this bike two weeks ago and ran a club race last weekend to warm it up. The Firebolt has a lot of potential and weÂ’re only going to get stronger as the season goes on."



Facing a 45-bike field filled with Suzuki, Honda, Yamaha and Kawasaki riders, Wood was running a strong second when race leader Scott Greenwood (Suzuki) faltered on lap 19 of the 20-lap feature. Wood stormed into the lead and beat Suzuki riders Michael Barnes and Larry Pegram to the checkered flag.



"The BuellÂ’s tractability and drive off the corners really worked for me at Loudon," said Wood. "In some turns I was able to put the Buell in places where the four-cylinder bikes couldn't go. The Firebolt has the chassis dynamics of a Grand Prix bike, and the smooth power delivery of the V-Twin engine was really easy on the back tire. As the race worn on, I think my tire was holding up better and I was able to pull away from the field."



"The Firebolt was designed to be the best backroad bike ever," said Erik Buell, Chairman and Chief Technical Officer of Buell Motorcycle Company. "Loudon is a technically challenging track, just like the backroads we designed the Firebolt to dominate on. My congratulations go out to Eric Wood and the entire Kosco Buell and Innovative Motorcycle Research Team."



The Formula USA Sportbike class features production-based motorcycles limited to a maximum of 115 horsepower and a minimum of 365 pounds. The Buell Firebolt XB9R is powered by a fuel-injected 984cc V-Twin
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Old 10-11-2004, 12:25 PM   #22
christian_gates
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Default Re: Buell XB-9R 4th in AMA FX

It's got more than 2x the displacement; it's somehow allowed to race "out of class" - generally defined by some fairly narrow displacement parameters - because it has the twin inferiorities of a V-2 configuration and no liquid cooling.



The V-2 configuration does have some compensating advantages, of course - and I'm not even opposed to air cooling in theory. Part of the joy of motorcycling is the amazing diversity. However, trumpeting racing results from a fundamentally different "type" is just senseless, and as informed consumers, we should reject the comparison.



We should also demand that Buell build a real motor. I am NOT advocating a Buell with a cookie-cutter, liquid cooled I-4. That is an option but it might not mate well to their chassis; a big-bang V-4, though...? Given the cost of the Buell (high), that might be reasonable, and would retain some of the benefits of the V-2.



My ultimate point is that Buell is marketing a streetbike through a program that is better suited to a track-based sportbike. My desire is for Buell to carry their innovative approach to making a full-go race bike.



There IS a place for the 883 Sportster motor in motorcycling; that place is not the racetrack.



cdg
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Old 10-11-2004, 12:32 PM   #23
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Default Re: Buell XB-9R 4th in AMA FX

Just to clarify, I really wanted to buy a Buell this year. I really did. They're neat bikes, and and I think that innovation should be rewarded - but combining innovation with ludditism (if that's a word) is about the same as not innovating in the first place. And if you want a sportbike (really defined by riding position as much as anything else, at least from a practical point of view), the Buell must leave you cold. It's just as uncomfortable as a Japanese or Italian bike, but with 30% more displacement and 30% less power.



I bought a 1000RR instead, which has a semi-innovative chassis, and a nice, flexible motor with lots of easy HP upside in case the factory prepped ZX-10 dyno charts give you some kind of complex.



cdg
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Old 10-11-2004, 12:41 PM   #24
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Default Re: Buell XB-9R 4th in AMA FX

In this situation Ciccotto can't win.

If he gets on the podium his detracters would say "well look at the displacment adantage, they bent the rules for him"

If he doesn't place well they say"that antique pile of crap shouldn't be out there in the first place"

I think it shows what a good rider can do on a good handling bike, and proves the kind of performance a Sporty engine is capable of in a decent frame.
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Old 10-11-2004, 12:42 PM   #25
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Default Re: Buell XB-9R 4th in AMA FX

hell no! to the notion of using the vrod motor. Why use that pig? You guys ever hear about Rotax? You know, the guys who make the Aprilia Mille/Tuono engines? That is the right size, the right shape, and the right persona to put in the XB.



Furthermore I'm pretty sure the Ducati's in class run 750cc which is a fair trade. But 1200+cc for the Buell? That's flat out preposterous.



The motor deserves to have been burned and buried 30 years ago. Then again engine innovation hasn't happened over there in beer town for just as long. My hat's slightly off to Eric for his go his own way attitude but tell you what, go tell the HD bosses to get stuffed when they miopically demand that you use their in-house crap. You want to build a real sport and fully street friendly bike and slap a "made in USA" sticker on it then get the engine from soembody who knows what they're doing. It's not like anything on that Buell is made in USA anyway.



Leave the HD engines for all those suckers who don't care about technology or paying too much for looks instead of substance. Heck the 2006 sportster owners might even thank you for improving the bucket of bolts they've been saddled for centuries.
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Old 10-11-2004, 12:49 PM   #26
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Default Re: Buell XB-9R 4th in AMA FX

Are we still talking about engines? Because rumbly twins who need their oil changed on occasion sounds like a pretty good weekend to me!
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Old 10-11-2004, 12:51 PM   #27
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Default Re: Buell XB-9R 4th in AMA FX

If you're buying it for a street bike then a Buell is just as competitive as an R1 or 1000RR. Do you really think you need 150 hp to shred it on the street?

I don't know you or how good a rider you are but I'm f****n' impressed if you're outriding a bike with a paltry 100hp on the street. I know I can't and I've been at it for years.

The Buell didn't measure up for you so you didn't buy it, you don't have to justify your decision.
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Old 10-11-2004, 12:56 PM   #28
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Default Re: Buell XB-9R 4th in AMA FX

Boy oh boy, here we go again.



As a former AMA and FUSA team owner, we raced Ferracci 888 Duc's, bought and raced Goberts WSB from Muzzy in '96, and the raced a VR1000 in FUSA in '97, as well a 2 Buell's in the Lightning series, so I am fairly well qualified to answer most of the issues brought up in the preceeding posts.



1. The Firebolt is about as short a wheelbase as you would ever want, and if it were 6" shorter and 50 lb lighter, it would not be much of a racebike with a chassis at some 48" it would be unstable in pitch, meaning it would wheelie both on the throttle and on the brake.



2. It is competitive on the weight at around 350 - 360 lbs in race trim, and about 135 hp., which is about 10- 15 down on the FACTORY Hondas.



3. The VR1000 engine was really an engineering exercise, and never developed as a production engine, like the VROD.



4. The VROD engine is too heavy 185 lbs. and is a large motor.



5. The Firebolt truely is a privateer effort. Built by Hals HD/Buell and Tilleys HD/Buell. They are NOT factory efforts, and honestly do not get much in the way of support from Buell other than "We tried this and that, and this is what we found that works".



6. Firebolts can be built up to a reliable 115 - 125 hp for the street, on pump gas. That also results in about 110 - 120 ft lbs of torque, which makes for a hell of a fun ride, and fast as well.



7. Anyone can buy a Japanese bike that will outrun a Buell in a straight line. But the same goes for every other Jap bike as well. Not fast enough? Bolt a turbo on your Hayabusa.



As for the "piece of *****" motor, think about this:

It has no radiator to get holes in it, no water pump, thermostat, coolant to leak/boil over, no valve adjustments, a top end kit, which is pistons, valves, gaskets, etc. is about $ 240.00

A complete rebuild is about $ 350 in parts, and if you have ever been inside a Ford/Chevy/Dodge/Farmall, and can read, you can rebulid it yourself.



Try that with any Ducati, (ps - ever done a Desmo valve adjustment? Know anyone that has?)



Guys, I know Eric Buell, and he loves to ride. He has constraints imposed by HD, and he does the best whith what he has. You don't have to buy into it, but before you blow it off as a "POS" go try it.



Buells seem to be kind of a "thinking man's sportbike". Like buying a Moto Guzzi or something like that. I don't think of my Buells as "disposable" bikes, like I do my '91 VFR 750, or my 600 Katana.



And all BS aside, it really does not matter what I am riding on Saturday morning down Hoghway 125, I still seem to go about the same speed, and I don't think I have ever ridden full throttle from the exit of one corner to the entrance of the next one, as that would put me WAY on the far side of 140, which is to damned fast for the rural area that I live in. (Animal and farm vehicle hazzards)



Try a Buell, I think you will have a pretty good time, and, unlike all the other bike manufacturers, just take your license to your local HD/Buell dealer, and they will be happy for you to ride your choice of Buells.



PS - It is CHEAP to build a very stout motor for a Buell. About $ 4,000 will get you over a 120 hp.



Have fun, ride well.



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Old 10-11-2004, 01:10 PM   #29
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Default Re: Buell XB-9R 4th in AMA FX

see? that's me, "thinking man"...
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Old 10-11-2004, 01:10 PM   #30
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Default Re: Buell XB-9R 4th in AMA FX

What the hell do you know? You only rode and raced em. Let's ask KPaul, the REAL expert. He has read about everything, and is smarter than you could ever hope to be. Please leave your infomed opinion out of this and let the ignorant speak. Your taking the fire out of JB's thread.
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