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Old 10-13-2004, 10:50 PM   #171
kiwi_steve
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Default them dang dinosaurs VR1000...

There's a few good bits of info in that post there VR (like the sound of that kart track too!) and since I managed to brighten your day so well yesterday I thought I'd better have another go today... Indeed Eric Buell is a fine engineer and all credit to him for turning that old brontosaurus of a H-D engine into a kind of velociraptor, but a dinosaur's still a dinosaur no matter how trick it is. As for efficiency, that all depends on which figures you're using and, as the presidential campaign is showing, those can be creatively spun a number of ways. For example a mpg figure of 55-65mpg for a H-D based engine sure is 'steady state' (on a bench with your fingers and toes crossed) and even Eric Buell himself recognises in his website interview that the 65mpg figure quoted from EPA tests is never actually going to be achieved in the real world. When 'Bike', Europes biggest Bike mag, tested an XB12 in Februaury they got an average tested mpg of 48, and that was in conjunction with a dyno'd HP of 87. In the same test a Kawasaki Z750 (not even a sportbike!) managed 47mpg and 97hp. The numbers game speaks for itself! If efficacy is taken into account (specific output in terms of bhp/litre) then the Buell isn't even in the ballpark, and as for the motor's original incarnation in 45hp H-D mode (again a 'Bike' dyno figure, the hp for the 1200 engine is not given on H-D's website...wonder why?), well it's back on the porch huffing on the shine jug!! The fact the engine is air/oil/fan cooled is a seriously limiting factor which has been discussed on these forums extensively in the past - if Buell's engine expertise that you have spoken so well of was applied to an engine capable of truly consistent cylinder temperatures and the benefits that brings in, among other things, terms of potential higher compression (lower specific fuel consumption and nitrous emissions) and structural stiffness (more rpm and the opportunity to explore more options in the valve configuration) then they would be onto a real winner and maybe one that could win more than a production numbers race (The Honda SC90 beats it there anyway - pizza boys forever!). As for the racing advantages enjoyed by Ducati, thats very true but since the removal of those in 2002 Ducati have still been dominant in the World superbike championship (although that will probably end next year - odds on a fireblade to win?). So you reckon KTM copied the '96 Buell Lightning rear end? Really? Now thats interesting....the beginnings of a KTM engine in a Buell chassis....now you're talking!! I'd love to see Buells engineering brilliance given free reign and the current H-D based engines (and the horrible gearbox) sent back to the antediluvian tar-pit from whence they came. On a completely seperate note - have you read Tim Hanna's biography of John Britten? I think you'd enjoy it!
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Old 10-13-2004, 10:52 PM   #172
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Default Re: Disposable Kiwi-Steve's comments

thanks mate!
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Old 10-13-2004, 11:00 PM   #173
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Default Re: Disposable?

Strong words, indeed. One question: have you ever ridden a Buell?
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Old 10-14-2004, 03:12 AM   #174
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Default Re: Another dreamer

I'll second that. As long as you come and deliver them in person.
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Old 10-14-2004, 03:34 AM   #175
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Default Re: Buell XB-9R 4th in AMA FX

and fourth is 11 places ahead of the rider's position in the championship, and 9 places ahead of the position of the other tractor in the series (M.Barnes) - kinda puts it in perspective. Of the eleven rounds the two tractors finished inside the top 10 six times, being beaten by rather less agricultural machines of half the capacity! Might be different for the Buell's if it weren't for that damned air-cooled pushrod actuated 2 valve tractor motor! Or perhaps the rules need adjusting and in the interests of fairness all 4 cylinder watercooled multivalve engines be limited to 400cc with the duc's at 600cc? Give that tobaccy chewin tractor a fair old chance now...
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Old 10-14-2004, 05:08 AM   #176
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Default Re: Another dreamer

I referenced the VFR because it was mentioned by some other posters. It's just an example. By the way, you responded to a post I wrote to responding to someone else's rabid comments. So if you're going to start barking, read the whole thread.



Now, if you had actually read what I wrote--instead of reacting in a knee-jerk fashion--you would have realized that I DID NOT SAY that large numbers of Harleys are in junkyards presently. I said that, with a glut of H-Ds out there now, it's entirely possible that more of them will end up in the junkyard in the future.



An unintended effect of Harley being so successful is that there are now so many of them on the road, there seems to be an oversupply. The used market is going soft. Values will go down. Exclusivity has gone away to a large degree. Nobody's saying that H-D is going to go under, it's just that the bizzarre (and completely irrational) used market will go away. Therefore, with so many good examples out there, many buyers (remember we're not talking about the serious enthusiasts like you) will not spend significant money to keep them on the road when they can go out a find another one. And forget about the simplicity of the motors, most of these people wouldn't have the slightest idea as to how to change a spark plug, so they're not doing the work themselves.



You're dealing with what has become a luxury brand. With that comes a lot of folks who keep the bike for a couple of years and then trade up or over for a new one. Then those used bikes trickle down to folks who have older ones. Eventually quite a few are going to end up in junkyards.



Let us also remember that for years the Japanese flooded the market with bikes while H-D couldn't build enough. I'm pretty sure that that is also a contributing factor as to why Japanese bikes are considered disposable.



That's all.
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Old 10-14-2004, 05:34 AM   #177
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Default Re: This Hurts...

and don't forget that that sportbike has way tall gearing compared to most cruisers
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Old 10-14-2004, 05:45 AM   #178
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Default Re: Another dreamer

I hope they do start ending up in the junkyard. I'd like to be able to pick up a cheap project bike again.
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Old 10-14-2004, 06:17 AM   #179
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Default Re: Another dreamer

I find it interesting that you issue veiled threats against people that you've never met. I'm glad you're so confindent in your physical prowess. Somehow, I don't think you'd be quite as confident if I made the delivery.



Of course you and I agree on most things, but you need resort to thuggery the one time we don't. I respect your opinion, and I'm not opposed to some good-natured flaming, but maybe you should lighten up a bit. I'm not the first to point this out.



Laugh at yourself little. You'll find that's it's kind of fun.
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Old 10-14-2004, 06:22 AM   #180
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Default Re: Another dreamer

Well, yes. The cheesier the better, right?
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